Semi Protection

Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice/Archive 8

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Tova glitch not a problem!

Ok so I noticed the glitch mentioned about killing Nilsine for the DB causing Tova to die and therefore not be able to give you the key to Hjerim. I have done DB quest first including killing Nilsine several times and have NEVER had this break the quest. As long as you haven't entered Clan Shatter-shield's house since the DB quest you will find Tova's corpse and suicide note complete with the Hjerim key. I have tested this several times but only on 360 so can't confirm for PS3 or PC. Lord EydvarTalk 16:19, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

There are several ways that can cause BOTI to glitch because of Tova - from your description, you have triggered the graveyard sequence (it doesn't matter if you started the BOTI quest or not), before killing Nilsine. Problem is if you kill Nilsine BEFORE triggering the BOTI quest - then Tova will commit suicide and the graveyard scene will never happen. Of course, further confusion is added if you kill Nilsine before the DB quest - then Tova will never commit suicide... --Krusty 17:03, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Weird cause I know I've completed BOTI without ever having seen the graveyard scene. A couple times actually since I've also had the glitch with having completed the Civil War questline for the Empire and had the whole Guard but no witnesses or body thing. But I know I've done this at least once without ever having seen the graveyard scene after having killed Nilsine for the DB. Lord EydvarTalk 18:50, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, sounds like it could be worth a shot testing how to start the quest without using the graveyard scene as trigger. I'll see if I can do that soon. Of course, you HAVE triggered the graveyard, you just managed to ignore it - but if there's an alternate way, it's worth figuring out. If Tova committed suicide (her suicide is part of the Mourning Never Comes script), the quest can not be started (she is one of two un-essential characters needed for the quest to even exist, the other being Arivanya) - so you did trigger the graveyard scene, you just didn't realize it. --Krusty 23:08, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Well I've both ignored it and have at least once started this quest via entering Hjerim after getting the key off of Tova's corpse. Since I had killed Nilsine the only time I'd been in Windhelm yet that game. Lord EydvarTalk 23:19, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Regardless, if you head directly to Windhelm just after escaping from Helgen and pickpocket the key to Hjerim, then you can't initiate the quest in there and every item will be strangely inactive. Hjerim only activates when the graveyard activates, and it the becomes possible to start the quest by entering Hjerim. --Krusty 23:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Weird then it must've activated but I missed it cause I'd been to Windhelm once and that was to kill Nilsine... Lord EydvarTalk 00:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

(←) Hi guys, I'm a 360 player and I cant start the quest because I killed Tova. I picked the key up from her body a while later and I can now enter Hjerim, I even found the butchers journal, but the quest still wont activate. Is there anyway that I can fix this? — Unsigned comment by 203.129.49.85 (talk) at 08:26 on 10 September 2012‎

I;m a PS3 player and I had yet to initiate BOTI before I started the DB quest. Unknowingly, I killed Nilsine. However, I was still able to initiate and complete the quest perfectly. I didn't know you could get the Hjerim key off Tova's dead body, so I just picked the Hjerim lock. Everything worked fine. I don't think the Tova glitch affects everyone. — Unsigned comment by 75.80.186.52 (talk) at 23:21 on 25 October 2012‎
In this case, there is a difference between initiating the quest and meeting the requirements for the graveyard scene to trigger. If you completed Mourning Never Comes without meeting the requirements (e.g. you killed Nilsine on your second visit to Windhelm), then you wouldn't be able to start the quest whatsoever. You must somehow have triggered the graveyard sequence before killing Nilsine, otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. --Krusty (talk) 05:46, 26 October 2012 (GMT)

Graveyard scene triggered during the capture of windehelm quest for imperial legion

When I entered windehelm with general Tullius the graveyard scene was triggered. But the guard didn't apper(or if he does doesn't execute right script or he attacked legionnaries and died) so i'm stuck to this point of quest. It can be resolved without reload a previous save(that is very very old) or start a new game ? Sorry for my bad english. Llde 18:54, 17 September 2012

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but I'm 98% certain the quest is no longer available to you. If you attack Windhelm with the graveyard triggered, the games gets confused and fails to put the new Legion solder near the graveyard. --Krusty (talk) 19:48, 17 September 2012 (GMT)
Thanks for the answer, it seem that the cause was a misfunction of the crimeinvestigator alias. I will try to find a way to reset it. --Llde 20:34, 20 September 2012
With the quest active the alias cannot be linked to another reference even with scripts(or maybe is too difficult for me)(dirty savegame bug). However using setstage command to bypass dialogue with the guard make the quest completable. Maybe replacing the alias with an actor can replace the guard? --Llde 20:46, 22 September 2012
I did it. I have created an unique actor and setted the dialogue and the scene to use it. So the bugged crimesceneinvestigator alias is now useless. However i need to do more test, and fix the dialogue's voice. --Llde 19:01 27 september 2012 (Gmt).
check this http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/26759 --Llde 14:30, 14 November 2012‎

Bloodworks

Some thing "Bloodworks" is mentioned twice on the page, but no reference or explanation is given.

Whether this refers to the unimplemented arena or not, I think it unfortunate that a place name is dropped with no way to find out what this is. (Searching for it on the wiki returns only two Skyrim articles: this one and the unused npcs page).

Hence the big question mark (couldn't find a "where?" template). CapnZapp (talk) 13:24, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

The Bloodworks seems to be the name given to the Location ID for the cell which encompasses the Barracks and (possibly?) the Dungeon. Kitkat •Talk•Contrib•E-mail 13:47, 6 October 2012 (GMT)
I went ahead and changed the wording of the article to eliminate this confusion. The Bloodworks should probably be noted on the Palace of the Kings page instead. --Xyzzy Talk 14:10, 6 October 2012 (GMT)
Hmm, the expression ‘Bloodworks’ comes from the game data, including Kitkat's link above, with more pages here and here, along with three lines of quest dialogue; "Oh, isn't that a shame. And here I am in the Bloodworks.", "Obviously. You should visit the Bloodworks to talk to Wuunferth -- we need to figure out where the evidence went wrong." and "Make your excuses from the Bloodworks, wizard." Basically, there’s nothing wrong with the expression when it comes to the quest – but since the cell is called ‘Windhelm Barracks’ in-game, the new solution is probably the easiest for readers to understand. --Krusty (talk) 15:27, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

Dark Brotherhood bug workaround

I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention since it's not in the bug section. My game has not been patched for a while, so when I discovered the first murder scene after running through the dark brotherhood quests, I was unable to interact with anyone/anything. However, later on, I worked my way through the Stormcloak missions and the Jarl eventually offered me the house. After I bough it, and as soon as I stepped inside the quest started up again with the "investigate the lair" part of the quest. — Unsigned comment by 99.20.67.12 (talk) at 19:06 on 7 October 2012‎

Just can't start it

I tried everything. I tried leaving windhelm and running far away and then waiting then fast traveling back between 7 pm and 7 am. I went to the graveyard and nothing. I did the dark brotherhood quest where muiri wants me to kill the two people but the one is optional but I didn't do the optional person. I believe everyone is alive that needs to be. I did almost everything for the dark brotherhood though. I'm at the part where we moved sanctuaries. I did the upgrades. What do I do? I'm on my Xbox 360 btw. — Unsigned comment by 76.105.41.74 (talk) at 02:50 on 24 October 2012‎

There are a large number of conditions that can cause this quest to fail, unfortunately. By far the most common are the people, so let's check those first. The people who need to be alive are: Helgird, Jorlief, Viola, Susanna, Tova, Calixto, Wuunferth, and Arivanya. It's conceivable that one of the more generic people is also dead (e.g., all Windhelm guards are dead), but those are very unlikely, so if you can confirm all of the above people are alive, let me know and I'll do some more digging. There's a good chance that the only way to trigger the quest will be to load an earlier save, or just forget about it for this game and try to trigger it early the next time you start a new game. – Robin Hood↝talk 22:27, 24 October 2012 (GMT)
Well the jarls assistant keeps telling me that I can't buy it because their was unpleasantness — Unsigned comment by 76.24.87.59 (talk) at 17:37 on 26 January 2013
There seems to be an easy fix. Exit, enter, exit and enter, and exit again, through the back gate of Windhelm (the one at the docks) untill the quest is initiated. Doing this at night seems to increase the odds. Watch the video linked below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5x6wJHHpUM — Unsigned comment by 188.173.215.173 (talk) at 23:37 on 8 February 2013
As documented on the article, the final time you enter Windhelm has to be between 7pm and 7am. – Robin Hood  (talk) 23:42, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

Guard is gone

The grveyard scene is triggered but the guard is not around what to do? — Unsigned comment by 82.73.72.148 (talk) at 16:56 on 3 November 2012‎

you can had my same trouble. Check previous section: ‎"Graveyard scene triggered during the capture of windehelm quest for imperial legion". Maybe the guard is dead for some reason. Also check this my fix: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/26759 if I'm in right you should resolve this problem.(fix is in italian but it's easy to port it in english. Also if voice acting work you should listen english dialogue llde 14:28, 14 November 2012‎
I am having the same problems with it, I have not started the civil war quest at all or killed anyone there but there is no guard and it is really annoying, anyway around this? could it have been caused by dragonborn DLC. 217.137.157.197 00:07, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Last Stage No Waiting

I arrived in the Stone Quarter market place at 15:00 hrs to find Caxto murdering his next victim. Not exactly to the script!! — Unsigned comment by 92.13.118.46 (talk) at 12:15 on 14 November 2012‎

Not the bug already described

Krusty:The bug I've posted is not the bug already described. The bug I've listed before can appear the exactly bug above but appear at different conditions and the way to fix it is different and dirty(change radically part of the quest) using the fix i've provided on this talk page. I thinked that if this bug will be described in the main page more user would trying to fix it and alweys better way to developing this fix (maybe in less intrusive way) and that less users would ask why this happen.The bug is better described to "Graveyard scene triggered during the capture of windehelm quest for imperial legion" section of this talk page. If you want to do some change to description for various thing(matching maybe better language(I'm not english and I'm still learning it)or fix mispelling words or everythingh else) you are free to do this but please I think that is better for everyone if the bug is restored to main page.Llde (talk) 19:04, 19 November 2012 (GMT)

I think the bugs in question can both easily be noted by editing the bug which has already been on the page for eight months to add the other conditions. As for the fix, very few mods are allowed to be recommended as fixes on articles. For Skyrim, this includes the USKP but not player mods such as the one you were indirectly referencing. So that fix wouldn't be warranted on the article anyway. — ABCface◥ 21:32, 19 November 2012 (GMT)
I think that editing the condition of the previous bug described can lend the people to misunderstand that bug. Also in the description is said that the bug already described is fixed by version 1.4 of official patch while this bug is not addresed in the official or unofficial patch. You are right to remember me( and I'm sorry for this) that players mod is not allowed for fixing in this wiki caused that few people will test it while the unofficial skyrim patch is fully tested,but I think that the users have all right to know that a mod address this problem.Llde (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2012 (GMT)
And Why if player mods are not allowed as fix a user could wrote "This fix is found in Skyrim Nexus site (ID 21639)." on the "Bloodline" quest page in the bug section? Llde (talk) 18:24, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
That fix shouldn't be on that page, thanks for noticing it. I'll remove it momentarily. — ABCface◥ 19:09, 30 November 2012 (GMT)

Request of explanation about the last uskp fix

In the last revision you( Arthmoor) added this line "The remaining portion of this bug has been fixed by version 1.2.4 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch." to this bug:"If you capture Windhelm for the Imperials before triggering the graveyard scene, the witnesses and the corpse will still show up, but the guard may not be (since the Windhelm guards have been replaced by Imperial Legion soldiers), making it impossible to start the quest. This issue has been addressed by version 1.4 of the Official Skyrim Patch; note that the fix only works if you have not yet triggered the graveyard sequence when attacking Windhelm." In the uskp changelog there is wrote that now that the guard now change side properly after the attack of windehelm. But this means that it work even after that the graveyard scene is triggered and the bug is shown? And this address the similar bug that happen when you attack windehelm after (or while,like is happened to me) the graveyard scene is triggered? Llde (talk) 12:17, 22 November 2012 (GMT)

A bug may happen if you have a bounty.

If you have a bounty when talking to the guard at the murder site,he may repeat "Wait, I know you." thus cannot proceed the quest. Solution is to punch a guard outside the Windhelm (e.g. the gate), then pay the fine. Thieves Guild here will not help.145.100.194.152 23:48, 2 December 2012 (GMT)

I don't think this is a bug, per se. But I actually found an easier way when you have a low bounty. The guard asked me to investigate the witnesses, and I did, but then I needed to talk to him again. He said, "Wait, I know you...". I was given the standard option to persuade the guard that I wasn't worth his time (I don't recall the exact wording, but it's the standard option that you get when your bounty is low.) After he agreed, I talked to him again and he had the expected quest dialog. 72.229.1.121 22:29, 4 January 2013 (GMT)

Blood on the ice Glitch

i started the second part of blood on the ice quest and it won't let me kill calixto inside of Hjerim though it says to catch the Killer it won't let me so yeah please help me i want to complete the quest— Unsigned comment by 75.168.208.44 (talk) at 16:52 on 23 December 2012‎

It was fixed with a patch (the number escapes me), but if you've played the entire quest with an older patch, you're screwed. Sorry. --Krusty (talk) 00:09, 25 December 2012 (GMT)

I did this quest at the beginning of the game on first visit to Windhelm.

I'll tell the story, started a new game. Before even visiting Whiterun I got the carriage to Riften, I wanted to join the dark brotherhood. Killed Grella the kind. Went to windhelm to get the quest started before telling him it was already complete. All went well. As you may know the Shatter Shields are a target of the Dark Brotherhood. I happened to go past Tova on my way to the Aritino residence, decided to pickpoket her. I never expeted her to have the key to Hjerm but I got it, entered and picked up a leaflet. It then came up, "Started: Blood on the Ice." I looked about Hjerm, got the amulet, spoke to Viola, went to the wizard not the steward. Fought Calisto, stragely we fought inside Hjerm and I was able to kill him, he it says in the bugs section that he becomes unkillable inside but I didn't have this problem. Talked to the steward and the quest was complete, butcher was no more. I was surprised though when walking through the graveyard Suzana the Wicked(why the wicked? She is one of few nords in windhelm who is nice to dark elves.) was still lying there dead, me completeing the quest possibly before I was meant to be able to start didn't save her. Quetion is should I have been able to do all this? Should I have been able to strt sand finish it on my first visit to windhelm? I didn't even get the quest from a guard like you usually would, it started when I read the flyer and I idn't need to question the witnesses. I don't even know if they were there, I only walked through the graveyard and saw Suzana dead after completeing the quest. I got skyrim for Xbox 360 when it first came out and have played it a lot since then, I bought an Amulet of Mara while in riften, when I finaly got to whiterun, shortly after completeing B.O.T.I. I stole the mamoth tust from on top of the bookcase in the Bannered Mare and presented it to Ysolda while wearing the Amulet. Shortly after I saw Nazeem patronising her, not a good idea when she is now an assassin's fiance, well partly because of that but I was also hoping his wife would sendhired thugs, they are always a bit of fun. I followed Nazeem, I was undetected as him and me were going up the steps, it went into the cut scene you sometimes get when doing a sneak attack when I pressed RT. Funny thing was as his body hit the ground it disappeared, there was nothing to loot. Is that a common glitch or is my disk maybe past it's best?— Unsigned comment by 62.60.112.96 (talk) at 00:03 on 29 December 2012

Entering Hjerim kills Susanna the Wicked. I think she's called that because she's the only girl in Windhelm who wears Tavern Clothing. :) And yes, if you enter Hjerim on your first visit to Windhelm, the quest triggers and you can complete it. (It triggered when you entered Hjerim, not when you picked up the leaflet.) But Susanna can't be saved. On the other issue with Nazeem's body disappearing, sometimes there are glitches in the ground and especially with sneak attacks you can knock your target through the earth. If you have Detect Dead and the body has disappeared usually you can cast it to see the dead body lying six feet under already and not lootable. --Morrolan (talk) 14:19, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

Get Assistance from Jorleif - USKP Bug

There's an invalid resolution in the Bug section. It states the following:

The "Get Assistance from Jorleif" objective will never register as completed. (PC Only)
This bug is fixed by version 1.2.1 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch.

However, I have the latest version of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch, yet the quest is stalled for me and the only incomplete objective and marker is for "Get Assistance from Jorleif". When I speak to Jorleif there's no quest-related dialog options.

I think I got into this situation as follows:

  1. Start the quest by walking near the guard in the graveyard. He'll stop you and begin talking.
  2. Interview all 3 witnesses.
  3. Speak to the guard again. Make sure you have a low bounty (~25).
    1. He'll say, "Wait, I know you...".
    2. Choose the option to persuade him that you're not worth his time. (It's standard dialog when you have a low bounty.)
    3. He'll let you go. Talk to him again immediately and he'll let you continue the quest normally.
  4. Speak to Jorleif to get his permission.
  5. Speak to the guard to inform him that Jorleif gave you permission.
  6. Follow the blood to Hjerim, but do not enter. Your journal should now say, "Gain entrance to Hjerim", or something like that.
  7. Speak to the mother and convince her to give you the key.
  8. Enter Hjerim with the key. Investigate all items, then collect 2 journals and the amulet. Leave.
  9. Speak to Jorleif. He tells you to show the amulet to Calixto.
    1. If I remember correctly, by this time the "Get Assistance from Jorleif" step was already passed but it wasn't marked as completed in my journal. I don't recall exactly when it was entered into my journal in the first place.
  10. Go to Calixto's shop and it's locked at night. Pick the lock and enter. He catches you inside, but doesn't add any bounty. Leave.
  11. Go to sleep for 8 hours. His shop is still locked the next day. Pick the lock and enter. He'll be sitting on a chair stairing at the door. Leave immediately.
  12. Go to sleep for 8 hours. His shop is still locked that night.
    1. It seems that he'll never open his shop again. It's always locked.
  13. Break in and he isn't there anymore.
  14. Leave the shop and he's outside, presumably walking back from Candlehearth hall. Pickpocket his key.
  15. Enter the shop with his key.
  16. Unlock his chest and take the journal.

At this point you should have only one quest marker and one incomplete objective: "Get Assistance from Jorleif".

Can this be fixed? 72.229.1.121 22:51, 4 January 2013 (GMT)

I just discovered after reading the main page that I needed to talk to Viola at some point but there was never any quest marker for me. I just found her and she had dialog that allowed me to continue to the next phase of the quest, even though apparently "Get Assistance from Jorleif" was never actually completed. (Same User, New Account): Gamertes (talk) 03:03, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
I'm playing on XBox, so I don't know what changes the unofficial skyrim patch makes. However Viola never gets a quest marker, ever, despite the fact that talking to her is necessary to continue the quest past collecting the clues from Hjerim. You have to talk to her at stage 70, Follow up on the clues from Hjerim. Stage 76 does not appear to ever happen. --Morrolan (talk) 14:24, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

Dragonborn/Dawnguard graveyard bug.

I recently got dragonborn and after a few mission, I went windhelm for the second time and noticed that the graveyard scene was triggered but there was no guard to talk to me. This is the first time this has happened and I'm not sure what happened to cause it, It was bugged before I even killed the shatter-shield daughter. Some dlc can cause bugs like how DG did with breezehome so it might be the DB that is causinging it. It could also be possible that vampires killed the guard or someone else but I had only been to windhelm once and vampire attacks are triggered by being in the town. Is there a way around this? I have checked through my save files to quite awhile back and graveyard scene is still there minus the guard. I Do not want to go back further because I have made a lot of progress with my character, its only this graveyard bug that is the problem, also dragons are glitched as well now since I cannot absorb their souls, the flesh remains and nothing happens. 217.137.157.197 17:57, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Hi - don't have answers to your questions but this happened to me too with DG as my only DLC. That is the graveyard triggered but no guard to get to "question witnesses" point of quest. This was a bit ago but I recall that either vampires or dragon hit town as soon as I fast traveled there. I play on PC and used console commands (setstage MS11 10) to move quest along. I completely sympathize with not wanting to lose progress made in game. This quest is VERY buggy; every play through I've run across at least one bug. I end up reading UESP and doing console commands to get through it every time. Maeve4444 (talk) 19:48, 13 January 2013 (GMT)
Have you completed the civil war quest line? Or was Wuunfurth arrested? There are a few things that cause the graveyard sequence to happen, but the guard not to appear. These bugs were present even without the addons. Jeancey (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2013 (GMT)
For me, when the guard did not appear, I had not done civil war. I usually do this quest before I do civil war to avoid bugs. Since my first play through where I totally got it wrong and missed the 2nd part, I have done both - had Wuunfurth arrested and gone to him. However, the graveyard scene which starts the quest line happened before getting to that decision. I'm pretty sure the guard had been killed during the attack that happened when I arrived via fast travel. In fact, I just did this quest yesterday with my current character and a dragon attacked when I fast traveled (it was my 2nd visit). After the dragon died, the guard did the dialogue about the murders and started the quest - we were in front of the palace and no where near graveyard. Also, Arivanya was killed by dragon forcing me to use console commands to complete quest. FYI - what I did to complete was use console command to move Calixto to me (prid 1611d; moveto player); I was in stone quarter and he ran to Hjerim. When I killed him the guards attacked me (I paid the bounty) but quest completed okay. I did not like that so I reloaded and went to Hjerim and found Calixto there. I was able to confirm he is essential inside Hjerim and added a note in notes section. I then left Hjerim and again moved him to me, I was in sneak mode and was able to kill without anyone seeing or guards attacking. BTW before all that I tried resurrecting Arivanya but she would not go to stone quarter. Basically I spent 3-4 hours trying to get the quest to work via console commands and documenting - but IMO this is the most bugged quest in the game. So I did not add anything other than what I confirmed about Calixto. Thanks to this quest's walk through I am able to complete each time I play, but rarely without using console commands. Maeve4444 (talk) 00:42, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
Hi, I'm the OP of this section, I did not do the civil war quest but I did start the Dark Brotherhood quest but as I might have said above, The graveyard scene was already started and had no guard even before I killed the shatter-shield daughter. I have managed to start the quest now by going into hjerim house, It finally starts and I then went from there and I completed it! I did not think this would work as it said somewhere that the house trigger can only trigger the quest in certain circumstances. Well regardless it worked and may it also help others who stuck like I did. 217.137.157.197 19:28, 1 February 2013 (GMT)
Hi, I'd like to add my voice to this. I've completed this quest several times in the past with no problems, by following the advice on this page, and never encountered the missing guard problem. This is including with the Dawnguard DLC. However, since I have downloaded Dragonborn, or perhaps the latest update associated with it, I have been encountering the missing guard issue. This is having made Blood on the Ice my first act in Windhelm, not having talked to any of the principle characters, let alone killing them. I have also not been anywhere near Hjerim or Calixto's place. Threepwood87 (talk) 22:04, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

Sometimes!

Two "sometimes" bugs that doesn't really sound realistic, unless someone can test them in-game (moved from article)

  • Sometimes, if you cause Wuunferth to be arrested, when you return to Windhelm, Arivanya will have been killed, but no guard will be standing by the body to re-activate the quest, rendering it unfinishable. In this case the guard is standing in town, but in the outside world. You must exit Winterhold, then use the console command tcl to fly into the town without entering the gate. The guard will be standing relatively at the same place.
  • Even with all the required NPCs alive and the quest underway, once you get the "patrol the stone quarter at night" stage, it is possible for Calixto to simply get stuck standing in the marketplace from then on. You can't talk to him, you can't do anything with him, he does not move from that spot, and the quest can never be completed.
    • On PC The simple solution is to open the console, select him, and type resurrect - even though he isn't dead this will reset him and he will proceed with his murder attempt.

--Krusty (talk) 22:42, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

I've seen Calixto get stuck once. I waited an hour and he got unstuck. --Morrolan (talk) 14:39, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

Calixto locked himself in his house...again, so I punched him in the face

Then ran outside while still in the attack stance and he followed me. I ran to the High Elf Vendor/Fence house with him in tow. Quickly I put away my arms and was finally able to talk to him to get him to take the amulet off of my hands. I'm not sure what caused him to lock himself in his house...again I thought it was fixed. I know I took butcher journal #2 before #1 and followed all the steps accordingly but he still locked himself in his house.

So after breaking 30+ picks unlocking the expert level door and hearing "You're not supposed to be in here" in the middle of the day, I broke in, saved, punched him in the face, lured him outside away from his door, put away my hands then quickly spoke to him so he took the amulet off of me.--67.185.108.121 11:11, 28 January 2013 (GMT)

Calixto is so bugged that you just have to run into him in the streets (so he greets you) and he will lock himself in. The fourth bullet in the article's notes section offers another solution. --Krusty (talk) 21:23, 28 January 2013 (GMT)
It's a master level door btw. When Calixto is stuck inside his house the best method I've found of getting him out is to pick the lock, walk inside, have him greet you rudely, walk back outside and then wait a couple hours until he's supposed to go to Candlehearth. For some reason he doesn't go to Candlehearth when he's behind the locked door despite the fact that he has the key. --Morrolan (talk) 16:39, 2 February 2013 (GMT)
I picked the lock and went to him, activated him so he would start to say "You're not supposed to be in here.", then quickly turned and exited before he finished speaking, and as most NPCs will do if you leave before they are done talking, he followed me outside (presumably to get his point across). :) I use this fairly frequently when I need to speak with an NPC who is inside, like Hern at the lumber mill, if it's late, etc. --Scribbles (Crayolamanic) (talk) 12:07, 23 February 2013 (GMT)

Killed Calixto in the grey quater, but now his body is gone??

After reading through all of these bugs, I could not believe this one hadn't been mentioned. I'm not sure if I really just missed it in there some where or if I really did find yet ANOTHER glitch with this quest. I was able to kill Calixto right in the center of the quater before he killed his victim, and it did seem like I was getting stuck with the bug of Calixto not dying, because his health stayed at about half after 3 consecutive firebolt strikes. However, my follower or friend, Stenvar, came up and finally killed him with a critical strike with his battle axe. But then, the body instantly disappeared and i was still triggered to go and talk to the jarl's assistant and finish the quest. I know there was stuff to loot on his body so I need to find it! Also, I thought there was a reward you were suppose to get upon completing the quest, but I didn't get anything.. — Unsigned comment by 24.128.22.248 (talk) at 18:40 on 31 January 2013

Stenvar probably knocked his body into the earth. This is a bug I've seen happen a few times, usually with critical hits and sneak attacks. I would guess that if you cast a Detect Dead you would see Calixto's body lying under the ground - and yes it's completely inaccessible when this happens. However this is a general bug, not a Blood on the Ice specific bug. There's no direct reward for this quest other than the stuff you get from Calixto, which can include the Necromancer's Amulet, a unique item, if you've sold Calixto the Strange Amulet from Hjerim. I think this quest is a prerequisite for becoming Thane of Eastmarch, but you have to complete the Civil War questline (on either side) before that becomes possible anyway. --Morrolan (talk) 16:48, 1 February 2013 (GMT)
Actually, if the body was completely knocked through, it's likely it will be falling forever underneath the ground, and completely inaccessible. (If you have the PC version of the game, you can use the TCL command to turn off collision, so you can try and chase the body down before it falls into oblivion.) The only way you'll see it just underneath the ground is if A.) you look right away after the kill, or B.) it's only partially knocked through - in which case there may be a small part still visible. I've seen cases where a body is hanging by just one foot after a kill - everything but the foot is underground, but you can still see the foot, and thus access the body. This is more common with some creatures who are relatively low to the ground, like Frost Spiders and Bears. I've only seen it with a humanoid enemy a few times. Bummer when this happens on a quest-specific enemy who you absolutely have to loot to finish the quest - only thing I can say is reload the last save and try again and hope it doesn't happen next time. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:41, 1 February 2013 (GMT)
The depth of the ground seems to vary quite a bit, and usually in cities the ground is not very deep. I've seen a number of bodies trapped just underneath the surface of the earth using Detect Dead. Otherwise yep, I've also looted feet before. Also I was wrong about the Thane of Eastmarch, this quest isn't a prerequisite for that; this quest is just a prerequisite for allowing you to decorate Hjerim, and you don't have to loot Calixto's body to complete the quest as well; it's just the only way to get the Necromancer's Amulet. --Morrolan (talk) 17:40, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

i cant seem to find the killer

so i have been looking everynight for the killer and still have not seen him. its my fith night waiting and i cant find him, im getting bored now looking but i really want to finish the quest so is there some way to fix this ? — Unsigned comment by 2.219.33.37 (talk) at 20:05 on 10 February 2013

If you want help, you'll need to elaborate a bit more - where exactly are you in the quest? What does your journal tell you to do? --Krusty (talk) 00:13, 11 February 2013 (GMT)

Using the key to Hjerim to start the quest.

There seems to be some arguments going on in the edits as to whether you can start this quest by simply entering Hjerim with a key. I've started this quest more than once this way, usually by purchasing Hjerim from Jorleif after advancing through the Stormcloak questline far enough to be allowed to purchase Hjerim. I've done that both with Susanna the Wicked lying dead in the graveyard (without having the quest be active) and having her still be alive in the pub (she dies as soon as the quest triggers). I'm currently playing on XBox with the latest patch, obviously no mods, and all DLCs. What is everyone else's experience on this matter, and what are you playing Skyrim on? --Morrolan (talk) 17:23, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Hey there. Sorry for all the odd reverts lately, but I tested it thoroughly and posted my results here. You hould be able to find at least some answers there. ☺ --Krusty (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2013 (GMT)
Hmm. You're saying that the quest has to be active, but not that it has to be in your quest log? What does that mean exactly? --Morrolan (talk) 21:45, 20 February 2013 (GMT)
Quests can be active without appearing in your log. BotI is a great example of that, where part of the quest actually starts when the game starts—that's the part that counts how many times you've been to Windhelm and whether it's after 7pm. Once those conditions are met, it kicks off another quest which sets up the graveyard scene, but you still have nothing appearing in your journal. At this point, if you go to Hjerim without viewing the graveyard scene, you might trigger part of the quest just by entering. You can tell whether this is the case by whether the lock is "key required" or if it's "Master" level. My understanding is that if you enter Hjerim while it still requires a key to enter, nothing will happen. I haven't tested this personally, though. – Robin Hood  (talk) 23:54, 20 February 2013 (GMT)
I have tested that last personally. If you enter Hjerim with a key (perhaps one bought from Jorleif) you discover a rather messy Hjerim, and the quest starts at stage 60. You can then examine the clues, go and talk to Viola, then sell Calixto the Strange Amulet, then either turn Wuunferth in to Jorleif or go and talk to Wuunferth and get told to wait for Calixto in the marketplace. The only parts of the quest you miss out on is talking to the witnesses and getting the objective Get assistance from Jorleif. --Morrolan (talk) 18:32, 21 February 2013 (GMT)
Alright. Latest patch, XBox, this quest completed today. I had a character go to Riften starting out, join the Thieves Guild, get a high Pickpocket rating (actually I was 100 before getting to Windhelm, but that wasn't the plan necessarily). Pickpocketed the key from Tova on my first visit to Windhelm. Entered Hjerim. Quest begins in a slightly odd fashion: the clues are scattered around Hjerim, the quest begins when I open a chest and take some leaflets, with a quest target of Follow up on the clues from Hjerim. There is no quest text at this point. I find all the clues, and get the Strange Amulet. When I leave Hjerim, I get a quest target of Look for clues assigned which is never completed. Then I loot Susanna's body, find Viola, sell Calixto the Strange Amulet, go to Wuunferth, find Calixto in the Stone Quarter, kill him, take the Necromancer's Amulet and go to Jorleif. The quest completes (I get the double-completion). Can we put this argument to rest now? --Morrolan (talk) 00:40, 6 March 2013 (GMT)
Entering Hjerim with a key pickpocketed from Tova didn't do it on its own, I had to go pick up a copy of "Beware the Butcher!" first. Based on the fact that most other BOTI scripting specifically excludes triggering the quest if it's not already running by the "normal" method, this seems like it's probably an unintentional way of triggering the quest. I don't think it would make a difference if you get the key from Jorlief, but that's harder to setup and test. Can you confirm that you have to read "Beware the Butcher!" to trigger the quest (and that the lock still says it's a "Key Required", not a "Master" lock)? – Robin Hood  (talk) 19:54, 6 March 2013 (GMT)
I think you just have to pick up the leaflet. Not read it. And yes, Key Required. The most likely way this quest would trigger in this fashion would be if you did the DB quests early and killed Tova, and then either picked up the key from her body or completed enough of the Civil War questline to find yourself buying Hjerim. That second way is how I discovered this method in the first place I think. --Morrolan (talk) 21:21, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

(←) You're right about picking up the leaflet, not reading it. I changed that on the article, but forgot to change it here. As far as I can tell, you still can't trigger the quest by reading the leaflet if Tova's dead and the quest hasn't already been initiated. I tried killing her in my testing, then entering Hjerim and taking the note, and nothing happened. – Robin Hood  (talk) 22:02, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

Interesting. I'll try on a future DB playthrough testing that. It will probably be months though, and this quest has been worked on a lot by Bethesda in updates, so possibly the answer will be different by then anyway. --Morrolan (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2013 (GMT)
I was thinking about this the other day, and it seems to me that it would be impossible to get to where Tova dies in the DB storyline without triggering this quest in any case. In order for Tova to die, you have to first visit Windhelm to talk to Aventus, then go kill the crone, then return to talk to Aventus again, and then advance through the DB storyline a bit longer until you get to where Muiri hires you, then you come back to Windhelm to kill Nilsine. That would be your third visit to Windhelm, and isn't that when the quest triggers? --Morrolan (talk) 18:47, 10 March 2013 (GMT)
You have to enter four times, and it has to be after 7pm, so it's not impossible to kill Tova without triggering the quest. – Robin Hood  (talk) 20:48, 10 March 2013 (GMT)
I did a lot of testing on that very rare bug - it can be found here (scroll down to the post that starts with "Okay". --Krusty (talk) 21:27, 10 March 2013 (GMT)
Interesting. That was April of last year though, and this quest has definitely had updates since then. I'll do a test probably sometime this summer, after the full 1.9 release, and see if what you did still triggers the bug. --Morrolan (talk) 20:21, 13 March 2013 (GMT)
I've made an edit on the main page to give some information about what's being talked about here. I'm not sure my phrasing was perfect; if anyone can think of a better way to word it, go ahead. Also I unlinked the vn tag to this discussion because I think that the bug as described was something a bit different from what I thought you meant by it. --Morrolan (talk) 04:47, 14 March 2013 (GMT)

(←) Yeah, I just noticed. Honestly, I can barely remember what I did to trigger that rare bug with Mourning Never Comes – and it was a long time ago, so when 1.9 arrives (or whatever it will be called on PS3), I’ll take yet another look at this nightmarish quest. I still disagree a bit with the new addition under “How To Start” though – yep, you can complete the quest this way, but it should be more of an “in an emergency situation”-type of deal, as the quest makes little to no sense when triggered that way. We also have to make up our minds – is this a bug (where it is also mentioned) or a possible solution to the many bugs that surrounds triggering the quest? In any case, right now, I think it’s in the wrong spot as it encourages people to start the quest the wrong way. It may be better to just add yet another section (underneath “How To Start” with a few emergency methods and add it there. For now, I’ll wait and see what RH70 thinks. --Krusty (talk) 05:41, 14 March 2013 (GMT)

It doesn't make sense to include it as an emergency situation way to start, because it probably doesn't let you get around Tova/Arivanya being dead. I'm more thinking about documenting it because it's a relatively easy way to accidentally start the quest; if a newbie buys Hjerim after advancing the Civil War questline without doing BotI then it's probably going to get triggered this way, and BotI is confusing enough as it is without the added layer of confusion being unable to talk to Jorleif for advice gives. --Morrolan (talk) 20:18, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
It should definitely be marked as an undesirable way to start the quest, but if the CW interferes with the regular quest, then I think we should definitely mention this as a possibility. – Robin Hood  (talk) 22:04, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
Actually thinking back I think the first time I triggered it in this way was when I was trying to deliberately avoid starting it, on the basis of "oh god not that buggy monster again." Then I bought Hjerim and went, why aren't there any decoration options for it? Then I went to Hjerim and ... well you can probably figure out the rest. :) The main thing to note is that this quest is not skippable if you want to at some point have a usable Hjerim. --Morrolan (talk) 14:19, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
I tested this yesterday with 1.9 installed. When I arrived in Windhelm with Mourning Never Comes running the graveyard scene spawned. Either I lost count of the number of times I'd been to Windhelm or they've added a check to trigger the graveyard scene when MNC is running to prevent this bug. --Morrolan (talk) 01:38, 11 April 2013 (GMT)
I looked, and Tova is still a required part of the quest in 1.9. If you hadn't killed Nilsine yet, and hence Tova, or if you'd met the BotI requirements before killing Nilsine, then BotI can still trigger. It only conflicts when the requirements are first met after Tova dies. – Robin Hood  (talk) 02:35, 11 April 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, that wasn't what I was getting at. What happened to me was that as soon as I entered Windhelm with MNC running, the graveyard scene triggered. Now I don't think I'd been there enough times for the graveyard scene to trigger normally; I might have been wrong about that of course, it's difficult to count exactly especially since you can run back and forth over the border accidentally. But it looks to me like MNC might have triggered the graveyard scene itself. --Morrolan (talk) 14:32, 11 April 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for the additional detail. I've got another quest I also need to check today, so I'll try this one as well and see if I can do something similar, or even if I can't, if I can find the coding for it. On the flip side, it's easy to trigger the requirements accidentally just by wandering around a bit in the general area near the stables. Either way, it bears checking out as this is one of the buggiest quests in the entire game, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're quietly trying to fix a few things. – Robin Hood  (talk) 16:49, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

(←) I don't see any additional coding that would be relevant, and having just gone through MNC, leaving Nilsine alive, I didn't trigger the graveyard scene when I was being careful to avoid Windhelm except as required to get into the DB. I then tried killing her, and that also didn't trigger the scene. My guess is you must've triggered the count while wandering past Windhelm at some point, even though you didn't enter it. – Robin Hood  (talk) 18:40, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

That's a pity, because that would be a good bug fix for this case. Oh well. Maybe in some future era Bethesda will hire us all as testers and TES VI will be bug-free. :) --Morrolan (talk) 20:01, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

Getting past the missing guard bug

I found that there was no guard in the graveyard, so I picked the lock on Hjerim, and as soon as I entered the quest started. I investigated clues, took pamphlets and amulet, and went straight to the first guard I saw, asked about the Butcher, and then went to talk to Viola, then Calixto and sold the amulet. I next went to Wuunferth, and took his advice to check out the Stone Quarter (market). I went in with bow drawn and poisoned, and saved Arivanya. Took the goodies in Calixto's inventory, THEN went to talk to Jorleif, for the first and only time during the quest (or my entire game, for that matter). This has been the fastest I have done this quest, start to finish, in three full playthroughs, and it all started with a bug and ended with none (my first time getting a functional Necromancer's Amulet) :) I have encountered the missing guard bug twice, the first time I reloaded a painfully early save, and this time had a convoluted process to find information providing the right steps to progress past it. I thought it might help to have a simple example to follow for those who find themselves in the same situation. I am so relieved! :) --Scribbles (Crayolamanic) (talk) 11:58, 23 February 2013 (GMT)

There is another solution if you are on a PC. You can find the reference ID of the missing guard from the quest variables. sqv MS11 will list those variables. Look for a REF called CrimeSceneInvestigator, that value is the ref ID of the missing guard. If he is dead and deleted you can simply resurrect him. That was the case in my game and his ID was 000D3C13. To resurrect him I used prid 000D3C13 and then resurrect commands. He reappeared at the crime scene. --88.245.36.106 10:18, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
Bypassing the inaccessible part of the quest due to the missing guard results in the dead body being there permanently in the graveyard because the conversation with Jorleif that disables it is skipped. On consoles, as far as I can tell, it's there forever. The bugs listing on the page seems to imply it only happens if the guard has been killed either through the course of the game or by the Imperials taking over Windhelm. That's not the case. It can happen randomly, even if Blood on the Ice is the very first quest you start out of the prologue without interacting with any other characters or killing any NPCs.Mjr162006 (talk) 20:56, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
The dead body does leave eventually; I think it disappears when the cell resets. --Morrolan (talk) 00:54, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

Lock level

To clarify confusion on the lock, it becomes a master lock, not an expert lock--the script puts it at lock level 100, the highest it can go without a key. Vely►t►e 04:56, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

Recent Bug Edits

A few comments on the most recent bug edits:

According to the CK, Tova and Arivanya are indeed required to be alive when the quest kicks off (i.e., in order for the graveyard scene to appear). If it's possible to initiate the quest with either of those two verifiably dead, please indicate how so that we can test it, and hopefully also figure out the mechanism by which it's bypassing what appear to be quest requirements in the CK.

As far as Arivanya's location upon her death, it looks at a glance like she should appear between Candlehearth Hall and the graveyard near the brazier. Of course, all this stuff is based on CK for me at the moment, so there could be misunderstandings. I'm off to bed now, so I'll look into this in-game (again :Þ) some more tomorrow. – Robin Hood  (talk) 09:54, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

Are you referring to the Blood on the Ice, part II for Arivanya? It is possible to initiate the quest by simply entering Hjerim. If Tova is dead, you go to Windhelm, take the key off her body (or buy Hjerim from Jorleif), and enter Hjerim. This skips the graveyard scene, kills Susannah, and starts the quest. See #Using the key to Hjerim to start the quest. --Morrolan (talk) 12:39, 6 March 2013 (GMT)
Part II is at least partly integrated into the entire quest (well, sorta...there are something like five quests that control the whole thing). As far as entering Hjerim, I just tried that, and it while it works fine ("fine-ish", anyway...I'll comment more in the Using the key section) if both Tova and Arivanya are alive, the quest will not initiate by any method if either of them is dead. – Robin Hood  (talk) 19:49, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

Confronting Calixto Directly

This is more of an oversight than a bug, but if you find the evidence against calixto in his chest upstairs in the museum before talking to Wunfeerth or the steward about the (framed) evidence against the court mage, there is no option in the quest to accuse Calixto - you have to pretend that you believe Wunfeerth is the butcher. 58.7.187.160 06:06, 14 May 2013 (GMT)


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