User talk:Nephele/Sandbox/8

I removed the Executioner's hood since as far as I know the only way to get it is with the console. And when I added it with the console it wouldn't let me equip it. If I'm wrong and there is a way to get it and you can equip it then sorry.

And a question, why is Cicero's name listed 3 times for all of his clothing items? Stormageddon 09:27, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

What stays and what goes

I've been fiddling with this list a bit while also cleaning up OB:Non Random Loot, and I plan to send it through the ringer to make it look like a real page somewhat soon. Before I get going on that, though, I want to make sure I've got the criteria right for what should be on the list and what shouldn't.

• The list should not include:
  • Any item you can only acquire by completing a quest
  • Any item you can only acquire by killing someone or something
• ...but it should include
  • Any items that have a guaranteed location even though you can also receive them by completing a quest
  • Any items that can be pickpocketed

Although, the pickpocketing question brings up another issue--you can only pickpocket equipped items if you have Misdirection or Perfect Touch perks, right? Should the list include things that can be pickpocketed even if you need those perks to do it? eshe^talk 14:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on, Eshe!

I struggled myself with what should really be the criteria for what's on the page, and can't say that I have any answers. What I can provide as feedback is why I generated the list in the first place. I had restarted the game with a new level-one character on master difficulty and I wanted to find out what items I could obtain relatively easily (i.e., gaining as little experience as possible, similar to Quest Timing). In some ways the page should perhaps complement Quest Timing -- with Quest Timing providing pointers on quests that give you good items early on, and this page giving you the non-quest-related options (including cases where you can get the same enchanted item either through a quest or without doing the quest).

I'm sure there are other reasons why readers might want to use the page, though, so going for "only available at level one with level one skills" might be too limiting.

On the other hand, it also seems like there are more randomly-generated items in Skyrim than previous games. In particular, thinking of pickpocketing -- if you're doing a lot of pickpocketing, you're likely to acquire quite a few good pieces of enchanted jewelry, because so many town citizens have a chance of carrying a random piece of jewelry. Which means that by the time you've got Misdirection/Perfect Touch, would you still be interested in items listed on this page? --Nephele^Talk 18:19, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey, no problem! (It gives me a lot to do in my significant downtime at work.)

I have to agree with you on the pickpocketing thing--in addition to the fact that you'd need a pretty high skill level to grab anything that's equipped, pickpocketing doesn't really strike me as a low-effort way to get something. (Maybe it's just because I always save before trying to pickpocket because I'm sure I'll get caught, but still.) If all the pickpocketing-only items were off the list, it sure would be a lot smaller and cleaner (thinking of Blue Mage Robes in particular). Then again, if I were higher level and for some reason I really wanted one of those items, I guess I'd want them to be listed on the page.

Oof. This isn't as simple as I thought! Going off the criteria that seem to have been used for the OB page, I guess the most thorough way to go about it is to list everything that seems reasonable simple to get, even if most people would find the item useless (like the Royal Cuirass). Since a couple of items there can be bought or stolen (and unless I'm forgetting something, in OB you'd pickpocket a merchant to steal wares), I suppose these pickpocketing-only items would have to be listed too.eshe^talk 19:06, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

And another thing...I'm trying harder now to clean up the list, looking in particular at Black Mage Robes because it's the first screwy entry in the table. The robes are listed as worn by "Argonian" and "High Elf," but aren't those kind of random in themselves? I mean, the first entry I found in the CSList for "High Elf" that wears the robes is WEAdventurerMageShieldStaffHighElfF (0x00106117). This doesn't sound to me like a person I could easily track down if I were looking for those robes...it sounds like a template that's used for a bunch of enemies in a bunch of places. If the pickpocketing items stay on the list, I think entries like that should be taken off, because it doesn't seem at all simple to find them. Am I missing something? eshe^talk 15:43, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

It's actually referring to an individual NPC with the name Argonian (or High Elf, etc.). In the case of the Argonian, it's just one of six NPCs with that name, specifically WEAdventurerMageShieldStaffArgonianM. Based on the editor ID, that particular NPC is a random world encounter (based on the "WE" at the start of the name), so he really doesn't qualify for the page. Basically any case where a race name appears, it's going to be an NPC with that name. It's probably easiest to just get rid of all of them, but there is a small chance that some of them might be fixed instances (I can't remember off-hand what the name is for the dead guy that you find in the cell in Unbound, for example -- he probably should be on the page since everyone will loot him for his enchanted robes. There definitely are some fixed dead bodies with boring names such as Argonian). --Nephele^Talk 16:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I know what you're talking about now. Alright, so basically what I'm hearing is I should leave them there until I can try and sort it out with the CK at home. Thanks! eshe^talk 16:17, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Adding people you can get these from

I've added to the amulet of mara bit the fact that one can obtain it from Maramal. Is that acceptable, or is this list only for locations these items can be obtained from, rather than people? Cowleyj 19:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe Eshe is working on a detailed page from this information in her sandbox. She has a "paws-off" policy for her sandbox (meaning no edits by other users) but you can contact her on her talk page. However, there are two locations on the site where the information is already noted for now. ABCface^◥ 13:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)