UESPWiki talk:Morrowind Redesign Project/Archive 1

This is an archive of past UESPWiki talk:Morrowind Redesign Project discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Pages That Need To Be Renamed (Archived 5 December 2006)

A Bet with Galbedir

After community discussion, it has been determined that this quest article will be renamed to "Fake Soul Gem", with a redirect page named "A Bet with Galbedir" established for ease of finding. The discussion on this rename commenced before the Morrowind Redesign Project page was establish, so I am summarizing the results of the discussion here. --Hoggwild5 13:57, 8 November 2006 (EST)

The redirect page are set up, and the quest has now been renamed "Fake Soul Gem", with all links to the quest page changed.--Hoggwild5 01:52, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Scarab Plans

This page will be renamed "Scarab Plans in Mzuleft", the official name of the quest. If the full name of the quest is not on the page, or a redirect created, the page does not show up in the search results if you search with the full name of the quest.--Hoggwild5 11:46, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Data Dumps to help with the Morrowind Redesign Project (Archived 5 December 2006)

I've created a few data dumps from the construction set that might help with the project (they're certainly helping me with tracking our progress.

• The Morrowind Quests page includes the Console IDs for the different quests in Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon.
• The Morrowind Locations includes Console IDs for the locations that will allow you to navigate there using the "COC" console command.
• The NPCs page includes a listing of all named NPCs in Morrowind, along with some demographic information (data is forthcoming on Bloodmoon and Tribunal).

I've included the names of the quests and the names of the locations as links in case anyone would like to use these pages to identify "red link" locations, NPCs or quests.

These dumps are located in my Sandbox pages, and I've included links to them under the relevant headings on the project page. You can also pull up my user page and peruse the links at the top to the different sandbox pages. Hope this helps, guys!

By the way, it looks like the location pages for the dungeons, shrines and ruins are almost 70% complete! I'm so excited about our progress on this!! Great Job, everyone! --Hoggwild5 04:50, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Items related to the Morrowind Redesign Project that were discussed on the Project Manager's talk page

Morrowind Rework Project

How are you going to handle the 'Next' Quests parts of the templates? I left a message on the Community Portal, but you haven't answered, so I'm still wondering about it a bit. --Ratwar 15:19, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Well, I saw where someone added a footer to the quest pages with the previous/next quests on them, so I've been adding those to the quest pages. Granted, the quest are non-linear, but there is a logical progression through the quests. At this point, I think we should include the footer with the previous and next quest on the pages until there is a point where you can't just proceed from one quest to the next (i.e., Ajira's quests: after Stolen Reports, you can't do the Staff of Magnus until you both complete the Stolen Reports quest AND reach the rank of Warlock, so for the Stolen Reports quest I did not include a "next quest". For the Staff of Magnus quest, we mention at the top that completing the Stolen Reports quest is a prerequisite, along with Ranking of Warlock in the Mages Guild, but we don't include Stolen Reports in the footer.

There will be a master listing of all Mages Guild Quests on the Mages Guild page (likewise on the Fighters Guild, Tribunal Temple, etc.) so a user can check the listing to see if there are any quests that they missed.

Your thoughts or comments would be appreciated. --Hoggwild5 15:35, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Sounds good to me. That's probably the best way to do it. --Ratwar 15:42, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks for your follow-up on my edits. I am mainly looking at the pages that are empty. I will help out with the quests as well if I see things missing. I am responsible for most of what is there in the quests pages, as I did many of the original ports of the quest pages from the old site to the wiki back in 2005, including the main quest, and I like all your suggestions about how to make them better. With my limited time, I probably will still try to add pages that are missing, more than edit ones that are there. Is there some description of what kind of information would constitute a "complete" places page? I just copied what was on other similar Places pages, but still I'll put the cleanup tag there just to be sure. Sstasino 17:01, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Just looked at the project page. Nicely organized! I'll look around at some of edits by the project leads of the locations section to see what I'm missing. Sstasino 17:14, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks for asking about the places page format...we really don't have a specific format yet, it's sort of underway. The most complete page, outside the cities, is probably Addamasartus. It has a description of the dungeon, a list of the NPCs, a map of the interior, and a list of notes to guide users in finding the hidden treasures in the dungeon. I'm in the process of snapping screenshots of the maps of the dungeons, tombs and shrines currently, so don't feel like you need to go find all the pieces. You'll find some of the NPC tables on my sandbox pages (I think I put links on the project page to those) for some of the locations. Addamasartus doesn't have any quests associated with it, but those would be listed under a heading called "Related Quests" if there were any. Let me know if you have any further questions.--Hoggwild5 18:20, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Hi, I've just finished all my major projects, so I'll start helping you out with the Morrowind revamping. I see you have it all under control, so I'm all yours, just tell me what's priority one, and I'll get right to it. --Werdnanoslen^Talk 22:39, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Hi Werd -- I guess our top priority is breaking up the Morrowind quest pages into individual pages, similar to what we have done for Oblivion. You can see a number of these pages that have already been done linked on either the Seyda Neen or the Balmora pages, near the bottom. Check those to see the general format. I'd like to insert links into the quest pages for NPCs because we will be adding NPC pages for all NPCs involved in quests or that provide services in the game (like smiths, trainers,etc). Adding NPC pages for non-relevant characters (those just filling in space, who aren't involved in quests or anything) is a very, very low priority and probably won't be done (we'll probably just group them together on a page or pages for information purposes). Once we get the quest pages broken out, with all the relevant NPCs on those pages inserted as wiki links, we'll have a better idea which NPCs to load up first.

I'm also in the process of snapping screenshots of all the dungeon maps for all the caves, tombs, mines, dwemer ruins and dunmer fortresses in the game. At some point we'll want to clean those up and insert them into the location pages and/or quest pages as relevant.

Welcome to the project! I look forward to working with you! --Hoggwild5 03:01, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Yes, thank you for making some maps for Morrowind. I remember doing a project for Morrowind:Places, and there were maybe two maps out of all Ancestral Tombs, Caves, and Shrines. Anyway, just to get the Morrowind:Miscellaneous Quests space out of the way, do you want me to move all quest information to its own page then reformat them later? Maybe add a wip template to the top of each one to clarify what's going on. This would encourage other editors to help out since they just have to do formatting and don't have to worry about copy-and-pasting or adding the information. In the meantime, I'll just edit the quests the usual way. --Werdnanoslen^Talk 08:00, 14 November 2006 (EST)

That will be fine...I've done that on some pages too. For now, we're going to be keeping the TOC at the top of the quest pages, so when you move the quest data to individual pages, don't forget to change the links to the new quest page. Thanks!--Hoggwild5 09:27, 14 November 2006 (EST)

I just noticed that you've been marking many places for cleanup. What kind of cleanup do you have in mind? Please note that I have already gone through all Ancestral Tombs, Dunmer Fortresses, Dwemer Ruins, Daedric Shrines, Towns, and Regions, making an uniform style, linking to external pages, correcting spelling, etc. What remains to be done is inclusion of notable NPCs, related quests and maps. --DrPhoton 08:48, 16 November 2006 (EST)

That's the kind of cleanup I'm flagging them for. I've got all the maps pulled from the game with screenshots, and I'm in the process of cleaning them up now, and notating them for significant features (location of hidden goodies, any quest related NPCs and valuable or rare loot). These flags are merely a tracking measure -- when all the information that needs to be on a page has been added, the flag will be removed. I've not really looked at the cities and towns yet; I'm concentrating on the dungeons, fortresses, shrines and ruins at this point, since there are so many of them. I'm using Addamasartus as my guideline...it's got all the information on the page I'm looking to put on the other pages.--Hoggwild5 09:26, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Well, then we should mark them as stubs and not for cleanup, don't you think? --DrPhoton 03:16, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Well, a couple of points here....

1. We haven't created a template for the Morrowind Project for stub pages, so the only one that's available is the general {{stub}} flag. I've not used that on any of the Morrowind pages, but I have used {{wip}} so using {{stub}} is certainly not inappropriate.

2. As the project leader for the Morrowind Redesign project, I'm checking the listing of pages flagged with the {{cleanup-mw}} flags and working on those pages every day. I tend to check the pages flagged with the general {{stub}} and {{wip}} flags much less often.

If the pages need to be flagged so someone else involved with the Morrowind Redesign project can come in and add the missing information, they need to be marked with the {{cleanup-mw}} flag, which is reserved only for the Morrowind Redesign project pages. If you feel strongly that we need a Morrowind specific {{stub}} flag, we can run it by Aristeo or Nephele and get their approval before creating them (I did that on the cleanup, Peer Review, and Needs Images flags). If they have no objections to creating a Morrowind specific {{stub}} flag, I'm fine with that.--Hoggwild5 03:35, 17 November 2006 (EST)

I must say the {{cleanup-mw}} flags are abit confusing for me in this context. I assume a page marked with this flag would need some rewording or restyling, or spell checking for example, but not added information. Personally, I would rather use a {{wip-mw}} or {{stub-mw}} for this purpose, or even something like {{needsNPCs-mw}}. However, I leave this open for concensus. --DrPhoton 09:16, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Your wish is my command...we now have a {{stub-mw}} flag,and I've added a category link at the top of the Morrowind Redesign Project page so you can find all pages flagged with this at one click.--Hoggwild5 16:12, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Great! How many wishes do I have left, my genie ;) --DrPhoton 12:42, 18 November 2006 (EST)

Let's see....There's SO many things I could do with that question..... :D --Hoggwild5 12:44, 18 November 2006 (EST)

What exactly is going to happen to the current Morrowind:Miscellaneous Quests page? --Werdnanoslen^Talk 21:18, 16 November 2006 (EST)

We haven't really discussed it. In the Oblivion namespace, the miscellaneous quest page is used to capture the links to quests that aren't tied to a location. I think there will continue to be a need for the page. I'm open for suggestions if you have any.--Hoggwild5 21:23, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Ok, and what about trails and categories? Should the breadcrumb trail link back to the Miscellaneous Quest page (which, if in Oblivion's style, would probably be best) or to the city's page? Also, should these quests still be in the Miscellaneous categories or the city's category?--Werdnanoslen^Talk 21:28, 16 November 2006 (EST)

If the Miscellaneous quest is tied to a particular city, it should have breadcrumbs linking it back to the city's category. If it cannot be tied to a city's category, use the Misc Quests breadcrumb trail. The list of breadcrumb trails currently set up for Morrowind are listed on my user page (I'll move those to the project page where they belong -- they were put on my user page before we set up the project page).--Hoggwild5 21:41, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Sorry I haven't been too helpful in the past few days, I got the mod job XD. Anyway, I'm on break now, for thanksgiving, and I'll be able to devote more time to the rework project. My question is should the Morrowind:Quests pages go to a list of quests & gen. info like it's been, or should the quests go on the faciton pages like Oblivion's? --Werdnanoslen^Talk 11:05, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Congratulations on the job! That's so cool. I'd like to do the quest pages like they've been done in Oblivion, with the quest names included in the faction pages. I had included the TOC from the top of the quest pages in the factions page on a couple of them, but I don't particularly care for the way that looks, so I think we'll change that to a linkable listing like the Oblivion pages are set up. --Hoggwild5 13:38, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Hi, just want to add myself to the list of people eager to help out with this project. I haven't Wikied in a while, so I'm still a bit rusty, but once I get that cleared out of my system, I'm thinking of tossing myself at some of the NPC pages, and perhaps helping out with the Alchemy pages. Those categories mainly picked from the impression that those were the ones with fewest contributors at the moment, so if you've got suggestions for other areas, I'm more than willing to change focus. And let me just add that as a frequent UESP user for a year, who isn't going to purchase Oblivion until I've squeezed every drop of action from Morrowind, I'm very happy to see this project in the works. Brilliant initiative. -- Isak 15:44, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Welcome to the project! If you'd like to start on the NPC pages, have at it; no one's working on them right now. For a good example of a properly formatted NPC page, you can refer to Ajira. A word of caution -- there are over 2500 NPCs in Morrowind, so a decision has been made NOT to create a page for every single one of them. We are only creating pages for those NPCs who are relevant (provide a service, hold a high ranking position in one of the guilds or houses, or are directly involved in a quest). For reference, you can find a listing of all of the named NPCs in Morrowind on one of my sandbox pages, User:Hoggwild5/Sandbox7. This page has a table with name, demographic information, faction information and location. --Hoggwild5 16:34, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks. I'll make sure to stick to relevant NPC's as per that definition and the one in the project page. And since I'm a n00b here, I'll make sure to flag the pages for peer review as I go along :) -- Isak 17:23, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Oh, I assume I should remove the links from NPC's deemed "not relevant" in the Morrowind:People pages, right? Isak 17:39, 1 December 2006 (EST)

If you find them, and you're sure they're not relevant, then yes, go ahead and remove them.--Hoggwild5 17:49, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Just be careful with that - as the person responsible for most of the main pages under Morrowind:People (except for the actual NPC pages), I'm relatively certain that most if not all of the currently linked names on those pages are for "relevant" people. There are definitely some relevant people who are not yet linked, but I'd appreciate you not removing any existing links unless you're absolutely certain, because it was a lot of work to research all those and to determine who was and wasn't relevant. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:55, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Ok, I really haven't checked if the ones still linkable were relevant, just assumed that they were still more or less unsorted. I promise if I do actually remove a link, I'll mention the specific NPC in the edit history, so they can be undone easily. Funnily, the first character I checked, Dondos Driller of Hlaalu Council Manor, Balmora has had the links removed, but he is an important part of the Hlaalu Stronghold Quest and should be considered a relevant NPC, shouldn't he? Isak 18:12, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Yes, he's definitely relevant. I'm trying to get through the quest pages and insert links in them (most of the current quest pages are carryovers from the old HTML site and haven't been wikified) so we can more easily identify relevant NPCs. I've already wikified the trainer and merchant pages. --Hoggwild5 18:16, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Pages Nominated for Deletion

Smugglers in Addamasartus (archived 8 December 2006)

This article has been proposed for deletion, with relevant content being moved to the Addamasartus location page. The deletion review is currently underway.--Hoggwild5 13:57, 8 November 2006 (EST)

NPC listings on Faction and City Pages (archived 8 December 2006)

We're currently using two different formats for listings of NPCs on the Faction and City pages. The listing on the Faction pages is in table format, is sorted by location, and includes some demographic and other relevant information on each NPC. The listing on the city pages is also tabular, but includes only a listing of NPC names, with links to relevant NPC pages.

Should we be using the same format for both pages? If so, which one? --Hoggwild5 14:24, 8 November 2006 (EST)

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