Lore talk:Third Era

Destri Melarg

Not sure why, but Destri Melarg is said to have died twice. once in 3E 114, and once in 3E 133. This probably ought to be fixed. 24.224.133.113 17:13, 29 November 2006 (EST)

While confirming this, I noticed that this has apparently been fixed and, more importantly, that the 3E 114 entry says he died 133 years old, yet it says (at 3E 20) that he was born on 3E 20. Does anyone know why this is? Also, does that mean he was born in the Second Era or the Third Era? Mathematicly, this would mean the final year of the Second Era, but perhaps it was meant to be at the beginning of the 3rd Era (113 years old on 3E 133). Anyone who can help clear this up for me is welcome to respond. Thanks. — Unsigned comment by Adoring Fan (talk • contribs)

King of Tamriel

I was just wondering if anyone could offer an explanation as to why the Emperors are referred to as Kings? I never noticed it before (and in-game Uriel VII is usually preceded by Emperor) and just wondered if there was a historical reason behind it. Just seems odd given that Tamriel is an Empire that the term is used instead of Emperor (especially in the case of Uriel VII). Is it an honourary title or something? --Emperor Moo 09:42, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I think technically, the Emperor is the ruler of the entire Empire, while a King is the ruler of a province, e.g. King Hlaalu Helseth of Morrowind. Uriel Septim is the ruler of all Tamriel, but he is also the ruler of Cyrodiil, so he is thus technically both a King and an Emperor. Tamriel seems to be an Empire in only the loosest sense of the word, however, as it seems that neighboring provinces are frequently at war with eachother (Valenwood vs. Elsweyr for example). The Empire is seen as something of an overseer for the provinces, but they are not really running under a single rule as they would in a true Empire. Uriel Septim seems to have very little power outside of Cyrodiil, thus his title of "Emperor" is somewhat ceremonial, while his powers as "King" of Cyrodiil are considerably more defined. Of course, it could be somebody just made a mistake... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:24, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Looking through several of the history books I came to the same conclusion as Lurlock: in general, most of the rulers are both kings and emperors. For example, "Pelagius, King of Solitude" then became Emperor Pelagius. It sounds to me like the title of emperor is considered more important than king/queen, however. Once someone becomes emperor, they are only ever referred to as emperor. So I'd be inclined to say that the preference for king/queen on this page is a mistake, and anyone who became emperor should be referred to as such. --Nephele^Talk 10:38, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Fourth Era?

Since the third era ends in the year 433, don't you think we should add a page for the fourth era? --Viccce 16:26, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

I suppose, except that there's nothing to put on it, other than "Well, it just started." Presumably when TES V comes out, it will be set in the Fourth Era, but that could be years from now. So we really don't know anything about it. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 16:37, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

Cleanup

Working on cleaning up this page, from the bottom up. This is mainly just checking and cross linking with all other pages, and making sure the information is correct. If large chunks have been removed the info is often superfluous and already listed on another page. Its been removed for simplicity, but can still be reached by at least one cross link -Lordsword 8 14:28, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Okay, 5th Century now cleaned up. I feel like it missing some entrues as it seems to short compared to the other centuries. Ill add anything else I come across. -Lordsword 8 05:54, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

There is now a page listing only major events, ie no births or natural deaths, as suggested by Nephele. To add somethin to both, just place it on the all events page. To have not appear on the major events page, place a noinclude around it please. -Lordsword 8 12:07, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

Finally finsihed the fouth era, so many links... :) -Lordsword 8 10:21, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Great Dragon Purge

Saruuk beat me to the vn tag, but can somebody tell me what this is all about? Google returns three results for "Great Dragon Purge" (with quotes) and none of them are TES-related. "Afrana Hiriutz" doesn't turn up any hits. Can anybody give a reference for this or should it come off? --Rpeh^Talk 10:29, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, given that these events supposedly happened in 3E433 they would be part of Oblivion, rather than one of the earlier games. In which case I'm pretty certain they are not part of the official Elder Scrolls lore. If anything, it's something that's been added by a third-party mod, which of course doesn't belong here. So I'm going to bite the bullet and delete it. --Nephele^Talk 12:35, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

The First and Second Champions

I haven't played Arena, Daggerfall or Oblivion, so I was wondering what happened to the first and second champions of Arena and Daggerfall? Does Oblivion make any reference to these previous heroes? -BretonRock

The only references are in books where their deeds after the event are never truly discussed. They don't want to dictate what happened to people's characters in the past. Morrowind's hero is said to have gone on an expedition to another continent. --Ratwar 22:58, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks. -BretonRock

Year Variance

Shouldn't the year of when the Oblivion Crisis started not be listed since the Oblivion Crisis doesn't start until after Martin is recovered from Kvatch, which the player may do in a later time, especially since the game starts in (I think) September, or what would be September. Similar to the Morrowind description, where it only mentions the arrival of the Nerevarine, not his accomplishments, I think the Oblivion Crisis and following events up to the Fourth Era should be left out, or not given a specific year. Actually, on second thought, I don't think any events in TES4 can be given an exact date since, in theory, one could wait until 3E 434, before getting to the part in the story where the Emporer dies. I do realize that the events of TES4 are important, however, I think we should try going about another way to show these events, at least until some official (Bethesda) time limits are given, ingame or otherwise. If there is no other way to go about this that suits the needs and preferences of the wiki, however, I think it is OK to leave it how it is, or if there is another reason why it needs to stay as-is, please respond stating why. Thanks! (PS: Sorry for the long comment!) --Adoring Fan 18:45, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Every time I look at the Time-Line, I have to wonder about the speed in which one Champion would carry out these events... Every time I play TES IV ((ever since I noticed/realized 'Level-Dependant' items, I ALWAYS spend my time from the 27th of Last Seed often all the way until either Evening Star or Morning Star (3E 434) practicing skills and acquiring loot and currency from bandits/camps and caves that do not have any unique level dependant Items; mostly I avoid those quests with special rewards. Also I focus on Efficient Leveling

Each time I play Oblivion, I don't deliver the Amulet and begin the Main-Quest chain until around mid-month of Rains Hand 434. I like to exploit the Felldew 'attribute glitch of-sorts' leading my character into the Shivering Isles around winter or spring 434, but don't carry trough the entire quest-chain, taking a break at/and after the Duke of Mania quest, not to finish the main quest until long after (possibly mid 435). Most often my main-quest climax for the Oblivion Crisis takes place in the fall of 434.

Every player will make different choices and do different quests at different times. Even though the Champion saves mundus, I don't believe he could do all the quest-chains with in a 4 month time-frame ***if the player cares not for time; but rewards for quests*** Skober 10:34, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Kintyra II's death

It states she died in her cell on 3E 14 but it states she also died in her cell on 3E 23, so which one is it? — Unsigned comment by 68.144.228.97 (talk)

The first date is the one that was announced at the time but the second is the true one. At least, that's how I read it. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:00, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

What happened to...

The empress who helped the hero of Arena save the empire from Jagar Tharn,it was so long ago I can't even remember her name ---LordSil 01:56, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, do you mean the ghostly woman in the cut-scenes? That was Arena:Ria Silmane, a deceased mage who had been an apprentice of Jagar Tharn's, and basically pulls an 'Obi-Wan' to guide 'the mysterious hero' through the main quests of Arena. But it's been a fair bit since I've played that game, myself... --Empath 14:52, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Pelagius I

In "Brief History of the Empire", in the third paragraph, first sentence, it says, "The Emperor's grandson, Pelagius, came to the throne."

But in the timeline it says his "eldest son". I'm thinking the book is wrong (as usual). It goes from Tiber, down to Pelagius, then to Pelagius' 1st cousin, Kintyra, who was daughter of Tiber's brother. Soooo, if Pelagius really was the grandson of Tiber, then that would make Kintyra his aunt.

So that is a mistake in the book then, right?— Unsigned comment by Vedaa (talk • contribs)

Yes, that seems correct, don't change the book however. I'll double check it too.-Puddle 06:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Yes, that is a misspelling by the developers, or the typer of the book, probably the developers.-Puddle 06:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Basis for date

Where is the source for this date?

     3E 375 — Hero of Daggerfall Born
     * The unnamed hero who put to rest the soul of King Lysandus is born.

-85.179.216.102 19:59, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

It's in the Daggerfall Chronicles, which as a book published by Bethesda, counts as an official source. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:01, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Is this book the basis for "Daggerfall" apparently taking twelve years? Does your hero regularly get letters asking "What in Oblivion are you doing? Why is this taking so long? Are you one of those people who wanders the world in side quests and just forgets to do the main quest?"

Potema

The Biography of the Wolf Queen oddly claims that Potema died at the age of "90" in "3E 137", but as it explicitly spelled out the date of her birth ("in the sixty-seventh year of the third era") I can't see how "90" could be anything but a typo; especially as The Wolf Queen indirectly gives her birth date several times as 3E 67 and her age at the time of death as "seventy" (as well as the similar ages of her siblings). Thus, I think it appropriate that I add Potema's birth in 3E 67 as a history entry. Any objections? --128.243.253.103 05:41, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

Nerevar

The timeline here says "This is also the date when the reincarnation of the Dunmer war hero Nerevar..." Isn't nerevar actually a chimer? --Max Welrod 08:26, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Correct, however I believe it is meant to say he is a war hero to the Dunmer, not a Dunmer war hero. –Elliot ^talk 08:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

In any case, I've changed it to "chimer". If anyone doesn't agree with the change, they can change it back to "Dunmer", but please put "War hero of the Dunmer" instead. Thanks, Elliot. --Max Welrod 02:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Age of the Hero of Daggerfall.

I was wondering why it says that the age of the Hero of Daggerfall is 30 (At the time Daggerfall starts) I've never seen any record of this, was this taken from a book in one of the games? Also, the "History" section in the Menu in Daggerfall of your character can say you were in your 20's. Or is the "History" thing not true? GaidenGuy123 02:58, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

This question has already been answered here. The information seems to have come from a book called the Daggerfall Chronicles. 204.45.58.234 17:47, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Fourth Era pt 2

(originally posted in the section above, now approaching its fifth birthday)

Ive got a TES IV Save that is already in year 3E434 so no, this year doesnt end it. — Unsigned comment by 188.102.133.144 (talk) on 23 December 2010

Yes, but this is one occasion where what happens in-game is less important than common sense. The third era ends with the end of the Septim Dynasty - the dynasty that began it. For the sake of consistent lore, everything that occurs within the game of Oblivion is considered to have taken place in 3E 433. Otherwise we get everybody writing lore according to when they finished certain quests in the game, which is obviously unacceptable. 3E 433 is the last year of the Third Era. It is followed by 4E 1. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:59, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Magnus

In most of the these pages where it refers to Magnus, the son of Pelagius Septim II, it redirects to the god of Sorcery, when in fact it should point to the Emperor Magnus — Unsigned comment by 72.48.94.34 (talk) on 29 December 2010

Thanks for pointing that out. I think I've fixed them now, although there are still a few pages waiting for the job queue to catch up. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:08, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Mannimarco

I was browsing the Imperial Library and found that in the Second Era, during the King of Worm's clash with Galerion the Mystic, the survivors concluded that both faction leaders had died. As certain recent events in North-Western Cyrodiil clearly show, this was not the case. Could it be, then, that we are being a little hasty in declaring this necromantic lord 'Gone for Good?' We may have seen his body broken in Oblivion, but that may or may not matter. I therefore propose that the relevant entry be changed from "Death" to "Defeat."173.76.239.249 21:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

This has been brought up more than once and it should remain as it unless Mannimarco returns in TES V. --Arch-Mage Matt ^{Did I Do That?} 22:14, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Uriel VI

It is stated that he was 22 at 3E 307, and that he died at the age of 25, at 3E 320. Can anyone correct this? — Unsigned comment by Mitsos (talk • contribs) on 23 January 2011

That's not what it says. The 307 entry states that he doesn't get full control of the throne until he's 22 - and that's what the next entry for 313 is about. The entry in 320 states that Morihatha was 25 when she took the throne. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. — Unsigned comment by Mitsos (talk • contribs) at 19:53 on 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Sheogorath

Should this be in the fourth era? It may be possible to do it before finishing the main quest of Oblivion, but I think that canonically Shivering Isles is set after it, and therefore in the fourth era, regardless of what Oblivion's in-game calendar may say. 67.165.65.163 04:07, 25 January 2011 (UTC)Tompie913

In a word: no. We've had this discussion many times before. Everything that happens in TES IV is in the third era unless something in a later game says different. Whichever one we pick there'll be someone who disagrees, so we're going with this. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:38, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Bloodmoon

On the Bloodmoon page it says it happens its 3E 429, but there is no listing here. I'm trying to figure out what source says the events of Bloodmoon happened in 3E 429, but I've already hit a dead end. — Unsigned comment by Doctormccorm (talk • contribs) on 2 March 2011

I honestly don't know. Morrowind definitely happened in 3E 427 (see this). I guess the date was just misread or something. I've changed it to match. rpeh •T•C•E• 05:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Very confusing. Should we put a mention of the Bloodmoon events in the timeline? No mention at all. — Unsigned comment by Doctormccorm (talk • contribs) on 2 March 2011

Sure, go for it. Incidentally, you can sign your own posts with four tildes, like ~~~~. You don't have to use the {{Unsigned}} template. rpeh •T•C•E• 06:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

3E 433 reversion

I undid this because it seems to be a mixture of rumor and speculation. No canonical source says that Ald'ruhn was razed - it's a rumor in TES IV. I'm not sure where the info about Telvanni comes from, and there's no proof the An-Xileel existed before the collapse of the empire. Please, people, can we stick to what the sources actually say rather than what you think they say? rpeh •T•C•E• 21:35, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The info is based mostly on in-game NPC dialogue in TES:IV. During the Oblivion crisis you will hear NPCs discussing the other provinces with each other (see this youtube video - the details on the Telvanni and on Ald'ruhn are mentioned here), so as far as I know, it is not mentioned by proper sources. I believe that the An-Xileel's envolvement is mentioned near the beginning of the Infernal City. The An-Xileel led the Argonians to victory while the Empire did little to help - this caused the Argonians to turn against the Empire following the Oblivion crisis (this is also confirmed here).--86.153.180.119 21:53, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Rumors are rumors, and thus unreliable. If you've got a ref for the An-Xileel, then please can you include it? We're trying to add references to the Lore namespace rather than add more unverifiable info. rpeh •T•C•E• 22:07, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

References and noinclude

What is the rationale behind using <noinclude> for some of the references? It leads to "Cite errors" on the Major Events page when a use of a reference is included, but the entry defining the text is not. --Alfwyn 20:13, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Force of habit, I think. We need to do it like that on many articles because it messes up our list pages otherwise. If you find any others, just remove them. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Destruction of the Mages Guild in Bruma

Just wondering if this is a canonical fact, and if so, should it be included as an entry for the year 3E 433? I notice that the death of Mannimarco is mentioned here, which is also an event that occurs as part of the Mages Guild quest line in TES IV Oblivion. Daric Gaersmith (talk) 00:21, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

It's canonical, just not sure if it's all that important. Yeah, a bunch of people died, but presumably, the Guild was rebuilt and back in business a short time later (though this of course doesn't happen during the game). Mannimarco is significant because he spans multiple games and is extensively written about in books. We can't include every single game event that occurs, or it would just get overloaded with too many events all occurring in the same years and very little in between, so we try to keep it down to only the most significant events that have an impact on lore in general and are not just isolated to one game. TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:29, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Thanks for the reply. That makes a lot of sense. I have added this event to my own copy of the history pages, which I am keeping as a reference for my fan fiction tales. It is going to be a significant event in the lives of the Gaersmith family, so I have added it there, and wondered if it might be relevant here as well, but I understand your objection. Thanks again. – Daric↝talk 02:02, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Pelagius III birth

I just wanted to point out that the timeline shows two dates of birth for Pelagius III Iituti (talk) 03:42, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

That being in 3E 119 and 3E 125 Iituti (talk) 03:44, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the entire entry, since it also gives a second date for Kintyra's death. —Legoless (talk) 14:49, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Year 0 problems

Year 0 doesn't exist. Is a totally nonsense. But in one lore book of the third era is mentioned two times. For the first year and for the fist year of a century. Is ignorance from the writer, maybe or maybe a intentional mistake to make the world more credible (historical ignorance exists at Tamriel too...) I will change all the dates less this two.

--Illo (talk) 18:09, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Levitation Act

,,The Levitation Act was a law passed throughout the Empire in 3E 421 which outlawed the use of levitation magic.``

I would like to ask if it is possible that the Levitation act can be added to the lovely list of the 3rd era, as I am afraid I will mess it up when I do it it myself.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Levitation_Act

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Third_Era#3E_421

84.85.146.183 20:42, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I added it to the list. Great suggestion! —Dillonn241 (talk) 05:33, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

"On Tirdas, the 1st of Hearthfire"

I don't find this date in any of the three sources. I presume it's taken from Arena's starting date, but there's two problems with that. The first is that Arena's starting date is, according to Lore:Calendar, random ("New games will begin either on the first of Morning Star or the first of Hearthfire, 3E 389."). The second is this would require citing the game. The third is that nothing implies throwing the Champion into a cell was something did on his first day as false Emperor. --Agiletek (talk) 05:52, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

This has gone for a year without comment. I'll also note Biography of Queen Barenziah and Real Barenziah are both quite clear the Champion spent some time in a cell. I'd remove the day and add the Eternal Champion's escape on the 1st of Hearthfire (I've since learned starting in Morning Star is a bug introduced in later patches) but the formatting for this page is too confusing. --Agiletek (talk) 06:34, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

The above is fair enough, but just to clarify: there is no issue with citing the game in lore articles. —⁠Legoless (talk) 20:25, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

The point was the entry does not cite the game as a source, not that it's not possible. --Agiletek (talk) 04:28, 20 June 2022 (UTC)