Lore talk:Redguard Names

Blakeley

Should Angelie's last name, Blakeley, be added to the family names? She even announces her self as "Angelie Blakeley. This is my father's house. He was lost at sea..."--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

No. That's her father's name (or Grantham Blakeley) and he's a Breton. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:30, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Should there be a 'lore' section?

Aren't Thassad and A'tor redguards? Dragon's have a lore section as well. Hope 17:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Lore section of most Names pages are still very much incomplete. -- kertaw48 10:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Of course the difficulty with Lore is that it takes actual research and interpretation to collect all that data. With the games, we can easily just get all the data out of the construction kits and be sure we've got everything. With Lore, you have to a.) read all the books (and that's a lot), b.) determine which books are historical and which are fiction (not always clear, and often disputed), and c.) ascertain the race of each individual with certainty (only sometimes explicitly given). Then you've got the issue of characters with multiple names, characters from now-extinct races, characters whose existence is unconfirmed (particularly with earlier lore), and all kinds of other complications. With the sheer volume of Lore in the ES universe, this is a very daunting task indeed, and one I suspect will never be truly "completed" with any degree of finality. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 14:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

About point b.): they're still names that are attributed to members of the race in question, no? They could still be used. And basically, because of point c.) this task would not be as difficult as one might imagine. -- kertaw48 15:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

We could at least get started on it, no reason not to put all the names used for a race used in-game. What would you think about the name 'Tiber' under Nord lore names? If they are fictional does that mean we can't place their name? I thought this was a list of names specific to races rather than people specific to races. -- Hope 18:38, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Daggerfall Names

Given names for Redguard in Daggerfall consist of a prefix followed by a vowel followed by a suffix. Sometimes a second suffix is also added to the name. Redguard have no surnames.

The 50 prefixes for Redguard names are: B, Ba, Bo, Bl, B', C, Cy, Ca, C', Ch, D, D', Dh, F, F', Fl, Fh, Fa, G, Gl, Gr, Gh, K, Kl, Kr, Kh, L, Lh, M, Ma, Mh, M', N, Nh, R, Ra, Rh, Rl, S, Sa, Sl, St, Sh, Shr, T, T', Tl, Th, V, Vl, V'

The 5 vowels for Redguard names are: a, e, i, o, u

The 26 suffixes for Redguard names are: ch, ct, fyl, g, ght, j, ld, ll, lp, r, rc, rch, rd, rg, rht, rk, rm, rn, rp, rt, s, sh, st, th, v, z

The 37 second suffixes for Redguard names are: am, an, ar, ba, ca, -e, e, em, en, er, fa, ga, -i, i, im, ir, ja, ka, ke, 'kern, ki, in, om, on, rn, -si, sa, t, ta, ta, te, ten, tha, ti, um, un, ur

I am not going to list the possible outcomes because there will be thousands. There does not seem to be any distinction between male and female names how would we add this to the page? — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 07:51, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

Indeed, that's 247,000 possible combinations, we can't reasonably list that. As for where to put them, I guess making a separate "Daggerfall names" section would be preferable, with a note mentioning that the names are epicene. -- Elakyn (talk) 13:47, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

That's only 36 suffixes: "ta" was listed twice. Where is that data from? Is there a 37th suffix that wasn't listed, or are there only 36? yellowantphil (talk) 19:32, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Arena names are needed

Until now the page has claimed that Redguard name generation is the same for Arena and Daggerfall, but this isn't true. The name elements listed are only correct for Daggerfall and you can verify this by looking at Daggerfall's NAMEGEN.DAT and Arena's NAMECHNK.DAT. Actually seeing if the generation rules are different is beyond me so for now I've just removed the misinformation. Boustrophedon (talk) 21:44, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Done, thanks to OpenTESArena's documentation on name rules [1]. Boustrophedon (talk) 23:16, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Unlisted names due to sheer amount of possible procedural combinations in Arena and Daggerfall sections.

To me it feels somewhat unfair that the readers can't witness the glory of all the possible names, yet it is understandable that the list can be overwhelming to be put on the page. Could there be a way to still include the whole list of possible Redguard names from Arena (both masc. and fem.) + Daggerfall names on the site?

Could be a pop-up list, or, if the formatting doesn't accommodate that, a separate article listing them?

I have a .txt file for all three name categories, listing all names possible, and can provide it for the site if needed. If neither the pop-up solution nor the separate article one are possible, there could still be possibility of at least letting a link with the .txt exist in the articles.

My reasoning to why the listing of those names is needed is that, for fanfiction-writing purposes, urban legends fact-checking, and simply nomenclature reasons. --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 20:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

If you have them all ready to be added, I say go ahead and create a separate page for them. Maybe Arena:Redguard Names or Lore:Redguard Names/Arena? We can have a look and see if it's too big and needs to be split further. Unlikely for plain text I would think. —⁠Legoless (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe Arena:Redguard/Names? The Rim of the Sky (talk) 09:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Noted, will probably do this in the following day or two. Thanks m'lieges :D --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 00:31, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello again, I made the Lore:Redguard Names/Arena page, although it might need some further editing/formatting from more experiences scribes, such as inclusion of relevant links and the like. The page includes the contents of both the male and female Arena names .txt files. It's... A wordwall, to say the very least XD : I will probably make a Lore:Redguard Names/Daggerfall tomorrow or later, as I still have the unisex Daggerfall names .txt on me.--Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 20:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not completely opposed to its existence, but it feels really not that useful since these names are just parts of a much more reasonably sized list merged together. The resulting page is current the longest page on the wiki more than ten times over. I do appreciate the effort put into creating it, but for me it solidifies that we probably don't want this to actually exist. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 20:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Well darn :( It's alright though, funny how it's been the longest page on the wiki for what, less than 20 minutes? At least done with scholar interest and not a troll spam page. I miiight post it somewhere else, then, maybe Reddit or some private blog. People do be needing namerefs ig. --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 20:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

(←) Yeah, I really appreciate the work you put into this! If people really feel like we should keep it, I think at a minimum it will need to be split into about a dozen individual pages. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 20:32, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I admit the description of the generational algorithm seems sufficient for any fanfic/fact-check use I can think of, but there's something about the craziness of the scale of it that's appealing. One option that might work to convey the visual impact would be to zoom out a lot, and take a screenshot of the true insanity of the page in unreadably tiny font, and post that as a visual demonstration of the range? That's got to be, what, close to 600k names? DewiMorgan (talk) 20:59, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I just tried my suggestoin, and at the smallest font Firefox will show, on my largest screen, it barely showed 5% of the page :D So that didn't work. Oh, well! DewiMorgan (talk) 21:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I do see some benefit to having the page, but wow, it is incredibly long. Could splitting it into male and female names help? The Rim of the Sky (talk) 21:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

As in a separate page for male names and one for female names? That'd sooomewhat help with the issue, but the thing is that while the male name list is large yes, the female one is manyfold greater in number due to how the names are generated (in essence, the fem. names are derived from masc. ones). At this point the best solution would be to do something akin to how Wikipedia does with large lists, not showing more than 500 entries at a time per page or so. An alternative and perhaps easiest solution would be to ditch the idea of actually having the list but instead to have the lists as a downloadable .txt file. --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Another option would be to have it split alphabetically. It's a way to keep the information on a wiki. something like: Lore:Redguard Names/Arena A , Lore:Redguard Names/Arena B Tyrvarion (talk) 21:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that this needs to be split or paginated somehow. —⁠Legoless (talk) 23:10, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

(←) Going to add Lore:Redguard Names/Daggerfall right about now. After I do, I suppose the material is all in the hands of the seniors. I wouldn't have been able to do this without the help of a friend which I will credit via their GitHub, https://github.com/nullFoo

Once it has been decided on how to break down the lists, I might assist in doing that. Until then, blessings of Mystara m'lieges B)/ --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 23:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

So, has there been any consensus? --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 08:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I think splitting the names both alphabetically and by gender would be a good idea. I made some steps to do so now.Tyrvarion (talk) 09:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Nice, yippee. Happy Holidays t'y'all =w=b --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 13:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just saw the end result, this is beautiful. Thanks to all of you for making this real, wow. --Teogara'is Beoganiusa'i (talk) 15:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I am really glad to hear that! Thank you as well for compiling the names and bringing the idea to the forefront! And likewise, Happy Holidays! Tyrvarion (talk) 15:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC)