Lore talk:Markarth Side

Dwemer built?

Removed from page pending verification:

"It was built out of stone long ago by the ancient Dwarves. After their dissapearance, it was re-inhabited by the people of the Empire and is still in use this very day."Minor Edits 06:34, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Last I checked, the Dwemer never made it that far into Skyrim. I think we should ommit it from the page until TESV:Skyrim is released, or until a reference for this info is found.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 06:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

It seems to come from a couple of other, rather less-accurate, wikis on the net. It might be true - the Dwemer definitely reached Skyrim, and are known to have lived in the mountains between Skyrim and Morrowind. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Todd Howard in a Game Informer interview (I think it was this one) confirmed that one of the major cities in Skyrim was built out of stone by dwarves. I don't remember him specifically saying that it was Markarth Side howver.--Tovenam 12:49, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Image

Why do we have a pre-release image of Skyrim on a lore page? The rest of lorespace has had to wait for the game's release -- why is this page any different? All pre-release images will have to be confined to Skyrim:Pre-Release Content after release, when we can create our own images. We might as well remove this image now. I'm not arguing that an in-game screenshot isn't appropriate for the article; I'm simply saying that it can't be this one. --Legoless 19:55, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The reason to limit pre-release content in the Lore namespace, as far as I understand it, is to prevent misleading or incorrect information from being added to the articles. I don't see how that applies to an image -- the image is still a valid pictorial representation of the appearance of the city, and its inclusion in the article benefits readers. I'm sure that eventually the image will be replaced by a screenshot taken from the released version of the game, but that's not going to happen until a month from now. In the meantime this image is better than no image. --Nephele^Talk 20:05, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

While that's perfectly logical, I'm a bit worried that this might make some people think we've entirely lifted the restriction on pre-release content. You could argue that, since we already know draugrs are in Skyrim, that we could update the bestiary with this information. I'm not sure this is the best, as at best this will seem inconsistent, at worst it will simply be confusing to determine what is appropriate and what isn't. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Snowhawk?

Looking at the map from Arena:

Next to the pocket guide map:

It seems like it may be possible that current-day Markarth may be the same city as Snowhawk from Arena. Snowhawk was notably absent from Skyrim, and as far as I know, there was no Markarth in Arena, so it's possible the city was renamed, or Markarth was built on Snowhawk's ruins or something like that. Can any lore-experts confirm or refute this? Is there any historical reference stating what happened to Snowhawk or what the origins of Markarth might be? --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 03:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

We once had Snowhawk listed as an alternate name for Markarth Side. I removed it, as there's nothing to back this up in lore. Snowhawk has simply been retconned out, and replaced by Markarth. Its absence in Skyrim supports this claim. --Legoless 18:17, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. It might still be worth mentioning on one or both pages. Even if we don't claim that it is the same city, we could maybe say that it may be, but there are no confirmed sources, yada yada. The fact that they are shown in nearly the same location, and as far as I know no map features both of them - it's like how you never see Clark Kent and Superman together. Not proof, but a good clue maybe. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 02:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a problem if you want to add it as a note. --Legoless 02:56, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

A good point was brought up here by Velyanthe. It seems Snowhawk does appear in Skyrim, as the ruins of Fort Snowhawk. I've therefore removed the note from this page, although again I don't have any real problem with it being added back if that's the consensus. --Legoless 11:58, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

(←) It is possible that Snowhawk was reduced to a fort, or destroyed and only a fort was left. Also, on the Oblivion map of Skyrim... Is Markarth Side the same as Markarth? Is there only a map to show this, or is there more?

Hm, check out this map--Karthwasten is where Markarth should be, while it should be around halfway in-between Markarth and Solitude (Haafingar). But we also know that Karthwasten still exists. Did Karthwasten move? Did the people of Markarth Side take over Karthwasten, rename it, and make the Karthwasten people relocate to a new Karthwasten? I feel as if there's a lot of unknown history in there, in the 200 years between the Oblivion Crisis and the events of Skyrim. I think that this movement would have happened at least a few years before 4E 174, and could have sparked the events of that year, if there isn't already a known reason.

Looking at the Oblivion and Arena maps side by side, it looks as if Markarth Side could be one of the two towns to the south of Snowhawk. Perhaps, in the time between Arena and Oblivion, Snowhawk fell and Markarth Side grew. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 15:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Transfer?

Every time I see this page, it gets a little bit more weird that this page is still "Markarth Side". Instead of having Markarth as the redirect, shouldn't we bow to modernity and transfer the content, turning this into a redirect? Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 23:12, 14 October 2012 (GMT) Went ahead and made the switch. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 01:16, 27 October 2012 (GMT)