Lore talk:Altmer

Lifespan

Does anyone know the average lifespan of the mer? — Unsigned comment by Example (talk • contribs) at 21:12 on 28 April 2010 (GMT)

I can't find anything definite but this article on TIL implies lifespans of at least hundreds of years. That article has the quote "Over the past thousand years, only seventeen new initiates were brought into the [Psijic] order. In the past two years, however, another thirty have joined." If only seventeen joined in a thousand years, there wouldn't be much to join if they didn't live a long time. --Rpeh^Talk 03:24, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Divayth Fyr claims to have lived for thousands of years, though he is described by others as one of the oldest mortals in Tamriel. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 09:35, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

The Real Barenziah, v 2 mentions that "the gods granted elves thousand-year lifespans." Twentyfists 21:46, 23 January 2008 (EST)

In my reading's Altmer can live up to 300 years. Lillia 08:15, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

origin of Mer names

Can someone add to the article that 'alt' is German for old, and in the Bosmer article that 'bos' is Dutch for forrest

Dun(from Dunmer) is Dutch for thin, but i dont think that has anything to do with the Dark Elves — Unsigned comment by 81.206.147.51 (talk)

If you had a reference to an interview or other source where a developer stated that these languages were the sources of the various prefixes, then the information would be relevant and it should be added to the article. But otherwise, it seems like unsupported speculation. In particular, the fact that "alt" is a German word meaning "old" seems to me to be coincidence rather than intentional. Given that the common name for Altmer is "High Elf" it would seem far more likely that the derivation is Latin, since "altus" in Latin means "high." --Nephele^Talk 01:44, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Hooray for Latin! Twentyfists 21:40, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Additionally, "bos" is similar to "bois", which is the French word for "wood". Since French is derived from Latin, I'd say that's probably where that comes from. The Dutch word is a possible cognate or borrowed word, but I'd say the Latin has more credence. (Much of the ancient language in these games seems to have Latin influences.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:35, 23 January 2008 (EST)

The latin word is "boscus." It means woods in Latin. The only one left is Dunmer I think. 98.221.87.206 15:01, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Dunmer are the "Dark Elves". In old English Dun means dark/gloomy not sure which base language it comes from though as English is, basically, the illegitimate child of both Old German and Latin. 87.113.23.237 14:24, 04 April 2013 (GMT)

Bethesda's vision problems

Bethesda did label that picture as male? On the codex or somewhere?Temple-Zero 16:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

why is that so hard to believe? he's just wearing a robe, and has his hair up.--GUM!!! 11:56, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Real life basis

I was thinking about the Altmeri caste system earlier, and it got me thinking as to how similar they are to the aryan peoples. By this of course I mean Indo-Iranians. Indo-Iranians bought their language and culture to the Middle East (like the Altmer to Tamriel), and in particular their caste system to India. This caste system is actually fairly similar to the Altmeri one. The Aryans had a profound effect on history, with the various Persian empires, for example the Sassanids, being descended from them. Sound familiar?

Additionally, the Aldmer, which we can assume to be similar to the Altmer due to lore sources, spread throughout Tamriel and divided into races. This can be seen in the Indo-Iranians clearly, as they have dispersed into numerous ethnic groups. This could be extended to early Indo-Europeans, and shows the extent of the genetic influence.

Another point to make is that propagandist Imperial sources accused the Altmer of eugenics, killing infants for racial impurity. This echoes the common misuse of the term Aryan that was used by the Nazis. Any thoughts? Corvus 10:24, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

As GK has already indicated, this is irrelevant speculation. If you want to continue, please do so on a forum - not here. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It's similar to the Bretons being based on the French etc, if there is evidence then it is trivia that people may be interested to know Corvus 14:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The equation of Nord/Norse; Imperial/Roman; Breton/French is well-established with dozens of similarities to back up the statement. This is pure speculation based on selective sampling of coincidences. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Not really that selective, there are always going to be similarities and differences. Take the Bretons- French name British accent. I don't see the opposition to this really, there seems to be a link. When I have more time I intend to delve into Altmeri lore a bit more Corvus 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Two great nations sir. The Imperials and the Altmer. Like the Romans and the Greeks. The Imperials are the Romans - power, armies, strength. The Altmer are the Greeks - ideas, civilisation, intellect. Between them they shall rule the world - David Hare — Unsigned comment by 125.237.209.205 (talk) at 01:46 on 12 September 2010

Altmer dictionary

Wasn't there an Altmer dictionary on this site? I've just made a search for "dictionary" and this seem to be the closest to it I found but it seem it was in vain. DynV 23:55, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

You might be thinking of the Ayleid Language page. Also, make sure you have Lore checked when you search for things like this.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 00:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The words Lore:Ayleid Language doesn't seen to be exactly Altmer but there's influence in it, so thanks! Could I have stumbled on this page (Lore:Altmer) without having checked Lore in the search? DynV 00:07, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, the Ayleids are a different race from the Altmer. I seem to recall that we once had a Dictionary space (either a namespace or a sub-space of the Lore namespace). But I don't think there was one for the Altmer.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 00:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

I am positive an Altmer dictionary was once online, before TESIV was released, I'm not sure it was on this site although I suspect it. DynV 00:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

It may have been The Imperial Library. They specialize in TES Lore and have a dictionary. Although I wasn't here during those days, a friend of mine (actually, my brother's friend) perused/read this site as early as Dec '04. I asked him about it, and he could only tell me that he somewhat (though only very vaguely) recalled such a dictionary being on the UESPWiki at some point during the 6 years that followed. In any event, if there was one there no longer is.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 00:24, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) This page is the closest we have to an Altmer dictionary (to the best of my understanding, they still speak Aldmeris), even though it covers multiple languages. I can't find any history to suggest we ever had a more complete/complex page dedicated solely to the language in question, but I could easily be wrong. Dlarsh^(T,C) 00:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Salache

So, the belief that Salache was an Ayleid term seems to have been based on the Daggerfall version of The Wild Elves. It turns out that the book was retconned. Salache, Boiche, and Moriche were replaced with Altmer, Bosmer, and Dunmer, but the wiki never acknowledged it. So, we continued to transclude the wrong version of the text into the other game namespaces for over a decade. There's really no basis that I can see for concluding it was an Ayleid term.

However, "Salache" apparently crops up in the ESO game data; see here. I can't find any other reference to these apparently generic npcs, so I don't know if they were even implemented. But if they are, the additional use of the word "Salache" would be relevant to the note on the page. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 00:33, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

These names are definitely derived from some elven language. Aurbic Enigma 4: The Elden Tree mentions the name "Boiche" as if it was the name of ancient Bosmer, or an ancient name for the Bosmer. The Book of the Great Tree mentions Salache as the Elves who came to Elden Root led by Meridia - and that would obviously refer to the Ayleids. Finally, the existence of the Ayleid word "Vahtache" in The Song of Pelinal, v 4, referring to the ruin of Vahtacen, suggests that -che is a suffix that exists in Ayleidoon. So even if these names don't come directly from Ayleidoon, they may come from Aldmeris or some other language closely related to Ayleidoon. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 03:40, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm fine with dropping the Ayleid tag if there's no direct evidence of that, but the terms definitely shouldn't be removed. Outdated or not, they're still alternate names. —Legoless (talk) 16:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Edit Warring

I've outlined my own reasons behind reverting anon's edits here and hoped to avoid an edit war. Per this however, I guess I'll be the one to start the discussion here. Does anyone object to the current revision? —Legoless (talk) 03:51, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I do have a question though: Isn't there a better source than "events of Skyrim" for their eye-colour? --MetaCthulhu (talk) 04:24, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

That was the reference anon provided, I didn't actually check to confirm. —Legoless (talk) 17:44, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Altmer 'Purity' and Physiology

So, we know the Altmer are the closest race to the Aldmer in terms of both appearance and ancestry, and that they take pride in their heritage and see themselves as the superior race. We also know that the Thalmor and, I assume as well, the Veiled Heritance are both nationalist groups obsessed with Altmeri supremacy and seem to dislike 'impurity'. Any idea on what they would consider signs of purity aside from a spotless family tree of only Altmeri family members and ancestors?

In addition, would there be any physical traits that would be seen as 'impure' signs in an Altmer?

Finally, is there any lore-based explanation regarding the hair colors of Altmer in the various games - how Altmer in Arena and Daggerfall posssessed dark and light colors, Morrowind depicted them with only light colors, Oblivion and mainly light-haired but also dark-haired Altmer, Skyrim had only one example of dark hair in an Altmer (a preset for females) while all NPCs as far as I've noticed have blonde, white, or gray hair (blonde and white are especially prevalent in Thalmor members due to their parallels with the real-world Nazis), a majority of Altmer NPCs having lighter colors while some (including Heritance members and those who are high-ranking/high-status Dominion members) have dark hair colors such as black and dark-brown while players lack such hair colors? Even Legends depicts dark and light haired Altmer (although I'm aware this might not be the best example to refer to) - with dark-haired Altmer cards being Lillandril Hexmage, Summerset Shieldmage, and Royal Sage according to the High Elf card page on this site. There might even be more, if anyone knows. It seems that the Altmer can have a variety of hair colors whether they are pure-blooded or not (e.g. Eambar in Dune has dark brown hair and is part of the Dominion, more than likely pure-blooded - Cannonreeve Valano has black hair and is a Heritance member who are Anti-Bosmer and Anti-Khajiit - Isiraamo in Craglorn's Mages Guild has dark-brown hair - and the lore book 2920, Sun's Dawn even refers to an Altmer on Artaeum as a "dark-haired Altmer lass" and is present in Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, -and- ESO) , yet there seems to be a sort of inconsistency in how their hair colors are shown. I guess darker hair colors are rare though entirely possible - but could there another reason behind this trend in Altmer as of late? — Unsigned comment by BlackWormDisciple (talk • contribs) at 00:10 on 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Altmer purity depends on how similar they look to the Aldmer. The closer they are to their ancestors, the better. It's seemingly as much a mathematical pursuit as a eugenic one. The hair thing was discussed at length on the forum thread, and there's really nothing else to say on it lorewise. Altmer have lots of different hair colours and there's nothing to suggest it has anything to do with racial purity, regardless of whether or not those shades are available in character creation. —Legoless (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Hmm... Right. I remember making that thread. I was just wondering if there was something else that could be added about that was all. My apologies. Edit: Sorry again, didn't realize I wasn't logged in when I made this second post. — Unsigned comment by BlackWormDisciple (talk • contribs) at 04:54 on 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Eye Colour

Is there really a need to have "They usually have golden, green, or amber eyes"?

I don't believe it's even true, as it is only apparent in Skyrim. Morrowind, Oblivion, ESO, and Legends all present Altmer with variety of other colours.