Legends talk:Creatures

Creatures Categorization

Creature cards cannot be found correctly as creature categories are incorrectly split. See Category:Legends-Cards-Creature-Breton and Category:Legends-Cards-Breton for one example of this issue. I caught it after making a page for dragons, and only finding one of the three cards uploaded to the site. The problem seems to be widespread enough that a bot should do a run at it, or else its some tedious by-hand editing. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 04:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

On further examination, the issue lies with the card type not being creature, and subtype not being used. I don't see an easy way to fix this without a lot of by hand editing, but someone else may know a more elegant solution. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 04:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

'Races'

I contest the separate section for the 'races'. There is nothing in gameplay to directly demarcate these subtypes - take note, as I said subtypes rather than player avatars - from any other apart from the fact that they are rather common, which is only due to their prominence in the mainline Elder Scrolls games. Epistemologically, nothing differentiates them from the others and to place 'races' alongside Animal and Undead, which are actually creature types, only serves to mislead and to satisfy the same urge that has induced UESP to ignore the ingame modes of reference of 'X Elf' in favour of 'XMer' which is more accurately exemplified by another wiki's facile insistence upon using 'Orsimer' rather than 'Orc'. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 02:28, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

So what exactly is your proposal? Mix them in under "Other Types"? This page already points out the two gameplay differences which demarcate these subtypes: they are tied into the racial bonus level-up rewards and are usually associated with two different Attributes. How do you mean to counter those two points? I totally fail to see what our overuse of 'X-mer' has to do with this. There is no misnomer on the article; the classic TES races are treated differently in card gameplay

I do agree that the hidden "Animal" and "Undead" types aren't so clearly explained on this article (or in-game), but I think the Notes section does an okay job at this. —Legoless (talk) 16:03, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I am arguing mixing them into other types. With the advent of Houses of Morrowind, races being tied to attributes is falling apart, with Dunmer being found everywhere and other races slowly proliferating. With hints of the levelling system being reworked by Sparky-pants, I fail to see why their gameplay does indicate a 'special' factor. If you really wanted to argue in favour of that demarcation, then the entirely coincidental fact of their prevalence would be the best and perhaps only valid way of marking these as somehow different. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 00:21, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

As far as we know, the new leveling system will only change the way how Training cards work, so that shouldn't touch the race based rewards. However, I'd argue that while "races" is technically not an in-game distinction, they are definitely handled differently by Bethesda than the other creature types. They have their own page on the official site, your leveling rewards will be from one of the race types based on your avatar, and while I agree that the lines are getting a bit blurry they are still associated with only two attributes in the core set (the largest set and probably the one that will never be rotated out of the ranked/tournament formats).

Due to this I believe it would be more confusing if they are not separated from the rest of the creature subtypes.

I am not sure why you mention "Orsimer"? It is not in the article, but even if it was, Orsimer is still a legitimate search string you can use in the deckbuilder instead of using "Orc" (and similar for all the other mer races). --Ilaro (talk) 08:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't see how any of your points negate the fact that they are treated differently, Fullerton. Race cards "slowly proliferating" into other Attributes doesn't negate the initial separation in the core set. The changes made by Sparkypants have nothing to do with this either. —Legoless (talk) 15:25, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps my use of "slowly proliferating" has misled you, Legoless. Dunmer are now found across all attributes, completely shattering the attribute identity established in the Core Set, which you say is not negated. This is not the case—these attribute identities have been negated. Despite your claim that they are treated differently in card gameplay, I also do not see how this is the case. In card gameplay, which I have interpreted to mean 'games of Legends played', the 'racial' cards are treated no differently from any other. As Ilaro says, the distinction is almost entirely drawn from OOG (or UOL, if you prefer) sources with the exception of Levelup rewards, which I would say are not significant enough to warrant a special category for due to the fact that many players who are already skilled and familiar at the game seeing no importance in their wiki-only categorisation, and unfamiliar players may infer a 'card gameplay' distinction which does not exist. To keep this category is more misleading than not, especially considering that it is one of the main causes of the confusion surrounding (due to its presentation alongside) Animal and Undead. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 03:42, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Actually, the point I made was that the Attribute identities remain intact in the Core Set. —Legoless (talk) 19:53, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

(←) The Core Set no longer defines the game. Mechanically, most mechanics have been introduced since and proliferated. Attribute identities are no longer present in post-Core Set card sets. Holding to the Core Set and using it as the sole source from which to derive information is exclusionary of the other sets and I fail to see how (numerically, mechanically, and chronologically) the core set continues to define the creature types, especially as they have gone through multiple iterations since. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 06:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC)